Intelligence Squared

An Evening with Dan Jones on War, Plague and Lion Hearts (Part Two)

October 19, 2025

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  • Dan Jones found the biggest challenge in writing the final book of the Essex Dogs trilogy, *Lion Hearts*, was the emotional strain of concluding a ten-year project, rather than the historical or technical puzzles. 
  • Jones views his trilogy as a sequential, ensemble story more akin to one novel split into three, contrasting it with a franchise where individual books can be read independently. 
  • Both Dan Jones and the host expressed concern over AI's ability to replicate formulaic writing, suggesting that the rise of AI necessitates a renewed focus on unique human creativity and the value of live, in-person interaction. 

Segments

Dramatizing Historical Legislation
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(00:03:21)
  • Key Takeaway: Dramatizing abstract historical legislation, like labor laws, requires creating a specific scenario and allowing well-defined characters to improvise within it to draw out the historical context.
  • Summary: Dramatizing abstract historical legislation, such as labor laws, is achieved by placing established characters into a specific scenario and allowing them to improvise. This method helps extract the relevant historical narrative from potentially dry material. Similarly, scenes involving festivities, like the Order of the Garter at Windsor, require defining the story’s purpose before knitting the details back together.
Emotional Toll of Writing Trilogy
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(00:05:17)
  • Key Takeaway: Dan Jones deliberately wrote the final book of the Essex Dogs trilogy under immense personal stress to imbue the narrative with the necessary tension and emotional difficulty.
  • Summary: Jones intentionally subjected himself to immense stress while writing Lion Hearts to authentically capture the difficult emotional state required for the story’s climax. Finishing the trilogy meant leaving behind a project that had occupied him for a decade, presenting a significant emotional challenge. He humorously noted that he nearly inflicted psychological damage writing the final installment.
Fiction vs. Non-Fiction Writing
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(00:06:58)
  • Key Takeaway: Historical fiction is described as a ‘cheat’s way out’ compared to pure non-fiction because the historical setting and events provide a ready-made ‘starter kit’ for the narrative.
  • Summary: Writing non-fiction is seen as easier because the historian primarily needs to recount existing amazing stories. Writing fiction, conversely, requires the creation of the stories themselves, which is terrifying for a non-fiction writer. Historical fiction offers a foundation by supplying the setting and events, avoiding the need to invent everything from scratch, like writing about aliens.
Trilogy Structure vs. Series
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(00:08:13)
  • Key Takeaway: The Essex Dogs trilogy functions as one continuous, sequential novel split into three parts, unlike a franchise series (like Jack Reacher) where individual installments can be read independently.
  • Summary: The trilogy format allows space for characters to grow and expand over a larger narrative arc. Jones left the door unlocked for future stories but emphasized that this work is sequential, requiring readers to follow the narrative order. This contrasts with a franchise where a reader can pick up any book and enjoy the story without prior context.
Character Naming and Development
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(00:11:15)
  • Key Takeaway: The character Romford was named after the Essex town because the author liked the name, and his complex personality, including substance abuse, was inspired by the need for a ‘junkie’ archetype often found in modern war films like Apocalypse Now.
  • Summary: Romford’s character development stemmed from an unexpected moment where he broke into an apothecary and got high, which the author found compelling. Jones sought to apply modern war storytelling archetypes, such as the junkie, onto medieval characters to test credibility. Romford is ultimately described as a ‘fiend’ who has since adopted a ‘straight edge’ mentality.
Favorite Book and Casting Speculation
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(00:15:21)
  • Key Takeaway: Jones stated that his favorite book in the trilogy is currently Lion Hearts because it is the one causing him the least bother now that he is promoting it, and he refuses to speculate on casting for potential screen adaptations.
  • Summary: When asked which book is his favorite, Jones compared it to choosing a favorite child, but currently favors Lion Hearts because discussing it is the least bothersome activity associated with it. He declined to name actors for potential film adaptations, stating he would be a terrible casting director.
Scenes Cut from the Trilogy
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(00:23:33)
  • Key Takeaway: The very first scene written for the entire Essex Dogs trilogy, featuring the captain on the bridge in Paris, was cut from the first book because juggling that storyline with the main Essex Dogs plot proved too complex.
  • Summary: Jones admitted to breaking the rule of ‘kill your darlings’ by keeping one favorite scene that was originally intended for a dual narrative structure involving the captain off-page. He ultimately pulled the captain’s entire storyline out of the first book to simplify the novel’s complexity. Joni also had many wild actions written that were saved for potential future spin-off material.
AI’s Impact on Creative Writing
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(00:17:18)
  • Key Takeaway: The ability of AI to replicate formulaic writing, such as standard history essays, suggests that human education has long prioritized machine-like algorithmic thinking over genuine human creativity.
  • Summary: AI is impressive at niche generation but lacks the ‘shine’ of human writing because it is fundamentally programmed and aggregative, driving toward the mean. Jones argues that AI’s success in tasks like A-level essays proves that educational systems have been training minds to think algorithmically. Creative people must now lean into the unique, unexpected aspects of human intelligence to maintain relevance.
Responsibility in Historical Fiction
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(00:28:41)
  • Key Takeaway: Jones believes non-fiction writers bear more responsibility for factual accuracy, arguing that historical fiction writers should not be stifled by the expectation to perfectly replicate history, as fiction is inherently made-up.
  • Summary: The selling point of a historian is that ’this happened,’ whereas the selling point of a novelist is the story itself. Jones criticized the view, often associated with Hilary Mantel, that historical fiction has a deep responsibility to be completely accurate, calling such pressure stifling. He asserted that readers bear some responsibility for distinguishing between fictional narratives and historical fact.
Character Selection Process
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(00:31:54)
  • Key Takeaway: Fictional characters like the Essex Dogs originated from the author placing magnified faces from 15th-century art books on his wall and allowing them to develop names and traits organically.
  • Summary: For fictional characters, Jones used images from art history books by artists like Jan Van Eyck, letting the faces stare at him until they developed names and associated traits. Real historical figures are often portrayed as ‘grotesques’ or monstrous versions, influenced by James Elroy’s style in American Tabloid, focusing on the less sober aspects of historical figures.
French Failures in Major Battles
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(00:37:06)
  • Key Takeaway: The French repeatedly fell to the longbow at Crécy and Agincourt because they were out-generaled, with English commanders exploiting the topography and army composition to neutralize the French cavalry advantage.
  • Summary: At Crécy, Edward III successfully used the topography to his advantage against the heavy French cavalry charge, making the outcome self-fulfilling once the French committed. Agincourt was essentially a repeat of Crécy, where Henry V repeated the strategy despite the French knowing the expected tactics. In both cases, the French suffered from poor leadership at the top of the army structure.
Upcoming Book on Castles
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(00:41:17)
  • Key Takeaway: Dan Jones is writing a non-fiction book titled The Castle, which will cover the history of fortifications from the Bronze Age (Troy) through to the nuclear age, examining both the structures and their place in the collective imagination.
  • Summary: The new book, The Castle, expands far beyond his previous TV series, covering fortifications from the Bronze Age to the nuclear age, including Viking ring fortresses. The work will analyze not only the physical buildings but also how castles and the associated figures (like Vikings or the siege of Troy) exist within Western imagination and literature. The book is scheduled for publication in Autumn 2026.