Intelligence Squared

Jonathan Freedland on The Secret Rebels who Defied Hitler (Part One)

January 7, 2026

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  • The story of *The Traitors Circle* is largely untold, even in Germany, because acknowledging internal German resistance complicates the popular, binary narrative of WWII as simple good versus evil. 
  • Jonathan Freedland researched *The Traitors Circle* by piecing together fragmented historical records, including Nuremberg tribunal transcripts and untranslated family memoirs, after discovering a reference to a secret 'tea party' in a Heinrich Himmler speech. 
  • The resistance figures in *The Traitors Circle* were complex and flawed individuals whose acts of defiance ranged from grand political maneuvering to small, personal gestures, such as Countess Maria von Maltzen shooting the eyes out of Hitler's portrait or another woman carrying heavy shopping bags to avoid giving the Nazi salute. 
  • Freedland intentionally structured the narrative of *The Traitors Circle* like an Agatha Christie thriller, using cliffhangers and suspense because the historical reality of elite conspirators meeting while unaware of a betrayer among them demanded a propulsive, non-academic form. 

Segments

Podcast Introduction and Sponsorship
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(00:00:00)
  • Key Takeaway: Intelligence Squared is partnering with WaterAid to highlight global water access issues during the festive season.
  • Summary: Connor, head of programming, introduces a special episode partnership with WaterAid focusing on the lack of clean water globally. Journalist Coco Kahn speaks with Amika Godfrey, WaterAid’s executive director of international programs, about clean water’s impact on education and community potential. The full conversation, titled ‘Everything Starts With Water,’ was released on December 17th.
Progressive Insurance Advertisement
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(00:01:16)
  • Key Takeaway: Progressive Insurance claims that drivers switching to them save nearly $750 on average and offers multiple discounts.
  • Summary: The segment promotes Progressive Insurance, noting that drivers who switch save an average of nearly $750 over 12 months. Auto customers can qualify for an average of seven discounts, including those for multiple vehicles or homeownership. Progressive provides 24/7 protection, encouraging listeners to get a quote online.
Event and Guest Introduction
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(00:02:31)
  • Key Takeaway: The episode features Part One of a live event with Jonathan Freedland discussing his new book, The Traitor’s Circle, about German dissidents.
  • Summary: Producer Mia Sorenti introduces the live event with Jonathan Freedland, author of The Escape Artist and The Traitor’s Circle. The Traitor’s Circle focuses on elite, non-Jewish German dissidents who resisted Hitler from within for nearly a decade. Freedland is in conversation with journalist Jenny Kleeman at the Kiln Theater in London.
Why The Traitors Circle is Unknown
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(00:04:42)
  • Key Takeaway: The popular WWII narrative favors sharp moral clarity (good vs. evil), making it difficult for popular culture to accept the complexity of Germans who resisted the Nazi regime.
  • Summary: Freedland suggests the story is underrepresented because WWII is often simplified into a binary of good versus evil, which resists the nuance of German internal resistance. He notes that the specific story of the tea party betrayal has never been published in German, possibly due to fears of downplaying overall German guilt. The research for this book stemmed from a footnote found while researching The Escape Artist.
Researching the Untold Story
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(00:09:45)
  • Key Takeaway: The historical record for The Traitors Circle is surprisingly rich, documented through Nuremberg tribunal transcripts, untranslated memoirs, and surviving descendants.
  • Summary: Although no single book covered the group, Freedland and his researcher found names in academic monographs and out-of-print German memoirs. Crucially, one member was a witness at the Nuremberg tribunals, providing detailed transcripts of the events. Descendants were often eager to share hidden family papers, confirming details like the menu at the central tea party.
Narrative Style and Structure
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(00:14:50)
  • Key Takeaway: Freedland employed the structure and pacing of a thriller, inspired by Agatha Christie, to convey the genuine suspense and drama inherent in the documented historical events.
  • Summary: Freedland aimed to provide the pleasures of reading fiction while maintaining rigorous historical accuracy, noting the story felt like an ‘Agatha Christie story’ or a ‘whodunit’ due to the group’s composition and the betrayal. He consciously used cliffhangers at the end of chapters, a technique from his Sam Bourne novels, because the reality of people defying Hitler while unaware of a traitor demanded a dramatic telling.
Character Profiles: Otto Keeb
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(00:18:37)
  • Key Takeaway: Diplomat Otto Keeb’s path to resistance began with a fateful decision in February 1933 to attend a fundraising dinner honoring Albert Einstein, defying the nascent Nazi regime’s anti-Jewish sentiment.
  • Summary: The resistance figures are characterized as flawed and human, not perfect heroes. Otto Keeb, born in Scotland, was a rising diplomatic star who joined the Nazi Party but began his defiance by attending an event honoring Einstein. This decision, made when the meaning of Hitler’s chancellorship was still uncertain, set him on the path toward the later resistance circle.
Character Profiles: Elizabeth Van Thadden
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(00:26:52)
  • Key Takeaway: Headmistress Elizabeth Van Thadden turned her progressive girls’ school into an unofficial sanctuary, spiriting away daughters of Jewish families across the border.
  • Summary: Van Thadden, managing a large estate from age 19, focused her resistance through education after her father remarried. She quietly defied regulations, such as removing Hitler’s portrait, before using her school to hide non-Aryan girls. Pupils recall seeing new arrivals with Jewish names disappear from their dormitories weeks later, having been secretly moved to safety.
Character Profiles: Countess Maria von Maltzen
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(00:30:05)
  • Key Takeaway: Countess Maria von Maltzen, a rebellious aristocrat and trainee vet, saved her Jewish lover from the Gestapo by daring the officers to shoot through the sofa bed where he was hiding, relying on their fear of bureaucratic protocol.
  • Summary: Maria von Maltzen was rebellious from youth, training as a vet against her mother’s wishes and marrying a cabaret artist. She harbored up to 20 Jews, including her Jewish lover, Hans Herschel, who hid in a custom-bolted box under a sofa bed. When the Gestapo searched her apartment, she gambled by daring them to shoot through the sofa bed, demanding a written credit note for upholstery repair, which stopped the officers.
Conclusion and Credits
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(00:39:05)
  • Key Takeaway: Listeners are encouraged to become Intelligence Squared members for ad-free content and to check the website for future live events.
  • Summary: The episode concludes with production credits, noting Ginny Hooker produced and Mark Roberts edited the segment. Membership details are provided for access to full-length, ad-free recordings and exclusive content. Information is also given on how to view the full program of upcoming live events.