Intelligence Squared

Julian Barnes in conversation with Ian McEwan (Part Two)

February 3, 2026

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  • Julian Barnes is rereading *War and Peace* and a specific edition of Dante's *The Commedia* while recovering from surgery, highlighting the importance of commentary in appreciating complex works. 
  • The composition of a novel's first line is a fluid process involving control and liberty, and famous first lines are often 'absolutely complete lies' regarding the narrative's immediate truth. 
  • Barnes announced *Departure(s)* as his final novel partly to avoid the fate of having an unfinished work completed by others, though he acknowledges he retains the freedom to change his mind. 

Segments

Rereading Habits and Dante
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(00:01:20)
  • Key Takeaway: Julian Barnes started rereading War and Peace but was incapacitated by opiate painkillers, and he praises a specific edition of Dante’s The Commedia for integrating translation and commentary.
  • Summary: Barnes began rereading War and Peace on his 79th birthday but could not continue due to powerful painkillers affecting his memory. He highly recommends Prue Shaw’s edition of Dante’s The Commedia because its layout allows simultaneous reading of the original Italian, translation, commentary, and notes. This edition helped him understand the Purgatorio and Paradiso sections better, revealing their contemporary and political relevance.
Analyzing Novel First Lines
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(00:04:05)
  • Key Takeaway: First lines must immediately command attention, and many famous examples, like ‘It is universally acknowledged,’ are fundamentally lies that hook the reader.
  • Summary: Ian McEwan quoted the opening lines of Barnes’s The Porcupine and his own novel Departure(s) to illustrate the necessity of immediate impact. Barnes explained that the first line of a novel is often not the one he starts with, as the true beginning emerges fluidly during the writing process. Famous opening lines often function as lies or partial truths designed to create an immediate, compelling hook for the reader.
Morality and Fiction’s Purpose
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(00:08:28)
  • Key Takeaway: The moral core of fiction often boils down to the self-evident truth that ’nice things are nicer than nasty things,’ a concept supported by Kingsley Amis.
  • Summary: The discussion referenced Tolstoy’s famous opening line to argue that universally acknowledged truths in fiction can be lies. Kingsley Amis provided the quote: ‘There was no end to the ways in which nice things are nicer than nasty things,’ suggesting that while misery shares commonalities, positive experiences have infinite variations. Iris Murdoch noted that this observation highlights the potential uselessness of hunting for a specific moral in fiction.
Literary Dogs and Philosophy
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(00:14:14)
  • Key Takeaway: Barnes immortalized his Jack Russell, Jimmy, in Departure(s), originating the observation that the dog ‘doesn’t even know he’s a dog,’ a moment recalled from a conversation with McEwan.
  • Summary: The conversation focused on the appearance of the dog Jimmy in Barnes’s novel, who was known for preferring human food and having strict rules about when he could be petted. The specific line about Jimmy not knowing he is a dog was a sharp observation made by Barnes during a visit to McEwan’s home. This led to a brief philosophical tangent about whether the dog’s perfect canine behavior implied some inherent knowledge.
Mortality and Finality in Writing
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(00:18:11)
  • Key Takeaway: The Victorians and Jacobeans openly addressed death, a subject suppressed today, and Barnes chose to publish Departure(s) as his final book to control his exit, citing Ingmar Bergman’s desire to leave cinema while he ‘could still reach the hat wrapper.’
  • Summary: Barnes noted that death is a suppressed subject in contemporary literature compared to earlier eras, referencing Larkin’s preoccupation with extinction. He discussed Thomas Nagel’s philosophical argument that death is a bad thing because it precedes the potential for existence, contrasting it with the pre-birth state. Barnes decided to announce his last book to avoid having an unfinished work completed by others, preferring a decisive exit like Bergman’s.
Advice on Autofiction and Mind Quality
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(00:35:39)
  • Key Takeaway: Emerging novelists should prioritize reading, and the quality of autofiction is entirely dependent on the inherent interest level of the author’s mind, as stated by Henry James.
  • Summary: The primary advice given to aspiring novelists facing a world that reads less is simply to ‘read, read, read.’ Regarding autofiction, Barnes expressed mixed feelings, suggesting it only succeeds if the author has an interesting life or mind. He concluded with a Henry James quote emphasizing that the deepest quality of any artwork is the quality of the producer’s mind.
Farewell to the Reader
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(00:39:15)
  • Key Takeaway: Barnes concluded by framing the writer-reader relationship as a shared, observational experience on a cafe pavement, where the writer murmurs observations that might metastasize into stories.
  • Summary: Barnes read the final passage from Departure(s), where the narrator acknowledges the reader’s sturdy, invisible presence, which is undermined by the concept of death. He rejected the didactic role, preferring the image of writer and reader sitting side-by-side, watching life pass by and musing on its varied expressions. This shared attentiveness, he suggested, forms the core of their relationship over the years.