Intelligence Squared

What Stories Are Written in The Rock Beneath Us? With Dr Anjana Khatwa

November 21, 2025

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  • Rocks are archives of time, climate, catastrophe, and culture, holding stories that are often overlooked due to their perceived inaccessibility or constancy compared to other parts of nature. 
  • The relationship with rocks must shift from mere observation to one of custodianship, recognizing them as finite resources whose extraction carries significant ethical and environmental consequences, as exemplified by the Industrial Revolution's reliance on coal. 
  • Integrating scientific understanding with traditional and Indigenous ways of knowing is crucial for fully appreciating the value of rocks, which serve as central anchors for belief systems, identity, and historical memory, as tragically illustrated by the story of the Lakota and Mount Rushmore. 

Segments

Indeed Sponsorship Read
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(00:00:00)
  • Key Takeaway: Indeed sponsored jobs yield 45% more applications than non-sponsored jobs, and 23 hires are made globally on Indeed every minute.
  • Summary: Listeners can receive a $75 sponsored job credit by visiting indeed.com/intelligence squared. Indeed highlights that sponsored jobs help posts jump to the top of relevant candidate searches. The platform operates without monthly subscriptions or long-term contracts, charging only for results.
Shopify Holiday Promotion
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(00:01:44)
  • Key Takeaway: Shopify is the commerce platform supporting millions of businesses globally, offering a free trial for entrepreneurs.
  • Summary: The best time for shoppers and businesses to secure deals is during the Black Friday, Cyber Monday weekend. New entrepreneurs can join thousands of others by signing up for a free trial. The promotion directs users to shopify.com/promo.
Introduction to Earth Stories
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(00:02:27)
  • Key Takeaway: Earth Scientist Dr. Anjana Khatwa views rocks and minerals as living archives encoding time, climate, catastrophe, and culture.
  • Summary: The episode explores how the ground beneath us holds forgotten histories relevant to human identity and origin. Dr. Khatwa’s work emphasizes that rocks are not inert but are storytellers marking geopolitical boundaries and shaping societies. The conversation is hosted by Professor Caroline Dodds-Panick.
Geology’s Public Image Problem
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(00:04:06)
  • Key Takeaway: Geology suffers from an image problem because rocks are ubiquitous, appear inanimate, and change on timescales invisible to human perception.
  • Summary: Dr. Khatwa shifted her career at age 29 to become a storyteller of rocks, addressing the public confusion surrounding the field. She argues that rocks are essential to life’s existence, forming the backdrop to human history. Engaging with rocks requires moving beyond scientific jargon to emotional connection, such as framing a rock as the moment a mountain was born.
Rocks in Nature and Spirituality
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(00:05:54)
  • Key Takeaway: Unlike seasonal nature, rocks are excluded from romanticized stories due to their constancy, yet they are central to Indigenous knowledge systems where they are viewed as ancestors and story keepers.
  • Summary: Indigenous communities have historically built relationships with geological features, imbuing them with emotions and memories over tens of thousands of years. This contrasts with Western science, which often treats rocks as inaccessible. Touching a rock allows one to feel a connection to a time and space existing only in memory.
Rocks in Modern Historical Narratives
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(00:10:42)
  • Key Takeaway: Geological resources like coal were the ‘holy trinity’ fueling the Industrial Revolution, linking past economic dependency directly to contemporary climate change impacts.
  • Summary: Rocks are essential material foundations for modern society, shaping borders and industries, but their extraction demands ethical consideration regarding environmental wounding. The speaker holds a piece of coal from Ironbridge Gorge, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, highlighting the complex dependency on finite resources like cobalt and lithium today.
Progressive Insurance Advertisement
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(00:15:26)
  • Key Takeaway: Progressive makes it easy to check for savings by bundling home and auto insurance policies, a process that takes only minutes.
  • Summary: Listeners are encouraged to visit progressive.com after the episode to see if they are eligible to save money. Bundling policies can result in hundreds of dollars saved. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates underwrite the policies.
Subaru Share the Love Event
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(00:16:02)
  • Key Takeaway: The 2025 Subaru Share the Love event runs from November 20th to January 2nd, with Subaru donating a minimum of $300 per vehicle sold to selected charities.
  • Summary: Subaru has helped grant over 3,900 wishes through its partnership with charities like Make a Wish during this event. The donation is made by Subaru and its retailers upon the purchase or lease of a new vehicle. More information is available at subaru.com/share.
Peloton Cross Training Series
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(00:16:29)
  • Key Takeaway: The new Peloton Cross Training Series uses Peloton IQ to offer tailored weekly workout plans with personalized guidance, including weight suggestions and rep tracking.
  • Summary: This feature is designed to help users discover new strength through structured training. The system provides personalized guidance to ensure users never lose count during their routines. The series is promoted as being designed for user breakthroughs.
Wayfair Way Day Sale
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(00:16:55)
  • Key Takeaway: Wayfair’s Way Day sale runs for four days, October 26th through 29th, offering up to 80% off all home items with free shipping on everything.
  • Summary: Exclusive doorbuster deals are available during the sale period. Discounts include up to 80% off area rugs and up to 60% off mattresses and bedroom furniture. Shoppers should visit Wayfair.com starting October 26th.
Nature’s Bounty Vitamins
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(00:17:26)
  • Key Takeaway: Nature’s Bounty offers over 400 vitamins and supplements, built on 50 years of trust, supporting health from head to heels.
  • Summary: The brand believes the body is brilliant and naturally designed to thrive. Their products cater to those seeking new ways to support their overall health. More information can be found at naturesbounty.com.
Reframing Custodianship of Earth
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(00:18:00)
  • Key Takeaway: Reframing the relationship with the natural world requires cultivating love and awe for the immense planetary forces and deep time required to form finite resources like granite.
  • Summary: Granite, a common building stone, takes two to three million years to cool from a magma plume, a process humanity cannot recreate. Realizing this immense scale and force instills a sense of respect for these ancient beings. This emotional connection is the starting point for becoming a custodian rather than just an observer.
Rocks as Cosmic and Cultural Markers
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(00:21:07)
  • Key Takeaway: Prehistoric cultures, like those at Stonehenge, used rock formations to mirror the connection between the land and the celestial sphere to answer existential questions.
  • Summary: The sacred Six Grandfathers Mountain (Pahasapa) of the Lakota in South Dakota, a granitic peak, was considered the birthplace of humankind until it was seized and carved into Mount Rushmore due to gold discovery. In contrast, Maori oral history maps the location of sacred greenstone (Ponamu) along the South Island coast through the story of a fleeing water spirit.
Colonialism and Mineral Exploitation
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(00:24:43)
  • Key Takeaway: Geological resources are frequently tied to colonial violence, exploitation, and subjugation, as evidenced by the British Viceroy’s attempt to discredit Makrana marble in favor of European stone.
  • Summary: The beautiful Makrana marble used in the Taj Mahal was tested against European marbles during the colonial era, illustrating how resources are used to assert dominance. The rock itself, however, proved superior in scientific tests, speaking for itself against subjugating attitudes. This highlights how geology is grounded in extraction and exploitation.
Positionality and Knowledge Sharing
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(00:27:52)
  • Key Takeaway: Stating one’s positionality, especially as a woman of color in the West, is vital to ensure the retelling of Indigenous knowledge is done from a position of equity, not exploitation.
  • Summary: Dr. Khatwa chose to foreground her privilege to avoid being seen as extracting or exploiting knowledge from Indigenous people or the rocks themselves. The book centers Indigenous voices by opening with a poem from a Native American professor, asserting that these voices have not been voiceless, only unheard. This approach sets the tone for equitable knowledge sharing.
Connecting with Local Geology
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(00:31:26)
  • Key Takeaway: Connecting with local geology begins simply by touching a rock that holds a personal memory or by engaging all senses during a walk in any landscape.
  • Summary: Listeners are encouraged to hold a cherished pebble or take a walk, allowing a central sensory experience of the rock to occur. Dr. Khatwa cites a piece of basalt picked up in Kenya at age 13 as the catalyst for her entire journey. The solidity and beauty of rocks offer a permanence that other transient parts of nature lack.
MVP Healthcare Small Business Plans
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(00:35:21)
  • Key Takeaway: MVP Healthcare offers comprehensive health plans for small businesses featuring expert support at competitive premiums.
  • Summary: The plans are designed to reflect the scale of a small business, allowing them to ‘go big’ with benefits. Interested parties can find a plan by visiting mvphealthcare.com/small group or calling 1-844-687-1237.
Etsy Holiday Shopping Ad
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(00:35:51)
  • Key Takeaway: Etsy promotes shopping from small shops for original and affordable gifts that convey a deep understanding of the recipient.
  • Summary: The advertisement emphasizes originality over traditional holiday sounds, using the sound of an ‘Etsy holiday’ to signify unique items. The call to action is to shop Etsy for gifts that say, ‘I get you.’
Vanguard Financial Meditation
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(00:36:16)
  • Key Takeaway: Vanguard encourages listeners to visualize reaching financial goals to experience the feeling of freedom associated with financial security.
  • Summary: The ad uses a brief moment of meditation, asking listeners to take a deep breath and picture their success. This is linked to Vanguard’s investment services. All investing is subject to risk, and more information is at vanguard.com/investinginyou.
University at Buffalo AI Initiative
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(00:36:32)
  • Key Takeaway: The University at Buffalo (UB) focuses its AI research on empowering people and tackling real-world problems responsibly for broad societal progress.
  • Summary: UB’s AI initiative is built on five decades of trusted research, prioritizing innovation that puts everyone first, rather than focusing on profit. They aim to use AI to empower, not replace, human capabilities. Details on their responsible AI use are available at buffalo.edu/AIforgood.