Skeptoid

Skeptoid #1011: The Not-Deer and Weird Appalachian Lore

October 21, 2025

Key Takeaways Copied to clipboard!

  • The modern legend of the Not-Deer, which emerged around 2019/2020 on social media, is a contemporary phenomenon rooted in the cultural trend of "Weird Appalachia" rather than genuine, long-standing Appalachian folklore. 
  • Reported bizarre behaviors and appearances of the Not-Deer are likely attributable to natural causes, particularly wildlife diseases like Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD) and other conditions causing physical distress and behavioral changes in white-tailed deer. 
  • The Not-Deer narrative evolved from simple sightings of strangely behaving deer into a more menacing, horror-themed cryptid, merging with other online horror tropes like creepy pasta and potentially misinterpreting indigenous lore like the Wendigo. 

Segments

Introduction of Not-Deer Legend
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(00:00:03)
  • Key Takeaway: The Not-Deer legend emerged on social media around 2020, describing deer exhibiting unnatural, grotesque behavior.
  • Summary: Stories of a cryptid sighted in Appalachian forests began circulating online around 2020. Witnesses initially mistook the creature for a deer before observing bizarre actions or appearances. This contemporary legend quickly migrated across platforms like Tumblr, TikTok, and Reddit.
Host Introduction and Context
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(00:00:36)
  • Key Takeaway: Sharon Hill is guest hosting Skeptoid #1011, which focuses on the Not-Deer and Weird Appalachian Lore.
  • Summary: Sharon Hill is guest hosting for Brian Dunning on this episode of Skeptoid. The episode aims to separate fact from fiction regarding the Not-Deer phenomenon. The show is supported by listener sponsorships.
Description of Deer Behavior
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(00:01:10)
  • Key Takeaway: Normal white-tailed deer are common, well-known mammals, making deviations from their expected behavior highly noticeable.
  • Summary: White-tailed deer are populous and familiar to most people as both a nuisance and a hazard. Reports of deer behaving unexpectedly began spreading online around 2019. Witnesses described jerky movements, disproportionate body parts, walking on hind legs, and unnatural sounds.
Appalachian Lore Context
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(00:02:36)
  • Key Takeaway: The Not-Deer stories became situated within the ‘Weird Appalachia’ genre, morphing the creature into a malevolent spirit.
  • Summary: The stories are primarily situated in the Appalachian region, leading to discussions about regional pronunciation preferences (Appalachia vs. Appalachia). Appalachia is a vast, geologically complex region stretching from Alabama to Canada. Isolation in the valleys fostered unique folk cultures, often stereotyped as superstitious.
Deer Lore and Hauser’s Insights
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(00:04:50)
  • Key Takeaway: Deer hold a unique position in human perception, being familiar yet often hidden, and acknowledging observers before fleeing.
  • Summary: Erica Hauser’s book, The Age of Deer, notes that deer are large enough to be noticed but often remain at a middle distance. Unlike many animals, deer actively observe people before moving on, representing nature aware of humanity. Indigenous American myths included deer as a regular part of life and death due to reliance on them.
Debunking Folklore Roots
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(00:05:46)
  • Key Takeaway: The horror theme of the Not-Deer is a recent development (last five years) and is not rooted in established indigenous or global folklore about deer spirits.
  • Summary: Online claims linking the Not-Deer to ancient forest spirits or established Appalachian folklore are inaccurate. Deer generally have benign associations with magic worldwide. The Not-Deer turns the timid herbivore into an unnatural threat, serving as a warning about wilderness perils.
Skeptoid Adventure Promotion
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(00:06:42)
  • Key Takeaway: Skeptoid is hosting a skeptical conference cruise aboard the SV Royal Clipper in April 2026.
  • Summary: Brian Dunning is promoting a Skeptoid adventure sailing from Malaga, Spain to Nice, France, from April 18th to 25th, 2026. The trip includes a mini-conference at sea and visits to ports like Valencia and Corsica. Details are available at skeptoid.com/adventures.
Weird Appalachia Genre Defined
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(00:07:49)
  • Key Takeaway: Weird Appalachia is a contrived genre portraying the region’s forests as haunted by eldritch monsters, witches, and ghosts.
  • Summary: This genre frames the woods as enchanted with ancient magic, inhabited by creatures predating humans. The folk horror aspect ramped up around 2020 with shared creepy incidents. This pop-cultural idea suggests weird things are common in these eastern forest lands.
Not-Deer Merging with Other Lore
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(00:09:12)
  • Key Takeaway: The Not-Deer concept merged with other monster stories, including a corrupted depiction of the Wendigo and the online ‘creepy pasta’ format.
  • Summary: Creative license led to the Not-Deer merging with a corrupted version of the Algonquin cannibal spirit, the Wendigo, erroneously depicted with antlers. Another variation portrays them as imperfect human shapeshifters. These tales follow the pattern of creepy pasta, stories spread rapidly online through copying and embellishment.
Pre-Not-Deer Sightings
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(00:10:24)
  • Key Takeaway: Reports of strange deer-like creatures predate the Not-Deer concept by decades, evidenced by 1950s accounts from Oklahoma and Minnesota.
  • Summary: While the Not-Deer naming is recent, reports of unnatural animal encounters are older. Jerome Clark documented two secondhand accounts from around 1951: one describing a wolf-deer hybrid in Oklahoma, and another about a small deer with a horse-like tail in Minnesota.
Natural Explanations for Behavior
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(00:11:46)
  • Key Takeaway: Bipedal stance in deer is normal behavior for observation or reaching food, and wildlife diseases cause many reported bizarre appearances and actions.
  • Summary: Deer standing on hind legs is not abnormal, often done to see, reach food, or intimidate, and is captured frequently on game cameras. Diseases like Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD), related to mad cow disease, cause emaciation, tremors, drooling, and desensitization to threats.
Disease Impact and Bullwinkle Deer
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(00:14:40)
  • Key Takeaway: Facial swelling described in some Not-Deer reports may correspond to a condition known as ‘bullwinkle deer’ caused by chronic infection.
  • Summary: CWD causes neurological damage via prions, spreading through contact and always being fatal, though it is not known to transmit to humans. The National Deer Association documents a chronic infection causing facial swelling, termed ‘bullwinkle deer,’ which would certainly startle witnesses.
Conclusion and Credits
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(00:15:06)
  • Key Takeaway: The Not-Deer legend is a convergence of cultural appetite for Appalachian horror, real disease outbreaks, and social media amplification.
  • Summary: The modern legend resulted from the cultural appetite for Weird Appalachia tales, encounters with deer (both normal and diseased), and the spread encouraged by social media. Guest host Sharon Hill directs listeners to her website for more work on cryptids and anomalous phenomena. Skeptoid is a listener-supported 501c3 educational nonprofit.