The Big Picture

The 25 for ’25 Selection Show Special

January 2, 2026

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  • The creation of the definitive '25 for ’25' list for *The Big Picture* is causing significant anxiety for Sean Fennessey, who feels immense pressure to meet his own internal standards for this public declaration. 
  • The hosts established ground rules for list eligibility, including films released from January 1, 2000, onward, and a 'one film per filmmaker' constraint to avoid over-representing their usual favorites. 
  • The initial long list generation process involved both hosts independently drafting selections, often influenced by personal circumstances (like Amanda's date night) and specific notes regarding underrepresented categories (international, animation, Spielberg). 
  • The hosts are actively debating and reordering their preliminary list of the 25 best 21st-century films, making significant adjustments to placements and considering films based on personal connection, cultural impact, and director representation (e.g., moving *Melancholia* down and *The Royal Tenenbaums* up). 
  • The current working list shows a heavy bias toward action/genre films near the top (e.g., *The Dark Knight*, *Mission Impossible Fallout*) but a notable lack of representation from major directors like Steven Spielberg, Denis Villeneuve, and most European filmmakers, with only one European director currently making the cut. 
  • The final five films are tentatively set as *Lady Bird*, *Inglourious Basterds* (with an asterisk next to *Once Upon a Time in Hollywood*), *There Will Be Blood*, *25th Hour*, and *The Social Network* at number one, reflecting a strong preference for specific auteur voices like Paul Thomas Anderson and David Fincher. 
  • The hosts finalize several contentious placements on their list of the 25 best movies of the 21st century, notably swapping out *The Dark Knight* for *Children of Men* and confirming *Inglourious Basterds* over *Once Upon a Time in Hollywood* for one host. 
  • The discussion highlights the tension between viewing films as a job versus watching movies one genuinely loves, noting that the selected films should bridge this gap. 
  • The final segment confirms several director groupings and omissions, including the absence of Steven Spielberg and Steven Soderbergh from the current list, while acknowledging the strong presence of filmmakers like Quentin Tarantino, Paul Thomas Anderson, David Fincher, and Spike Lee. 

Segments

Finalizing List Anxiety
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(00:00:15)
  • Key Takeaway: Sean Fennessey experiences significant anxiety over failing his personal standard for the definitive ‘25 for ’25’ list, viewing the public presentation as a high-stakes confrontation.
  • Summary: The hosts introduce the special episode of The Big Picture as a meeting to finalize the ‘25 for ’25’ list. Sean admits to feeling tense because he does not want to fail his own standard when the final list is presented publicly. Amanda notes that Sean’s anxiety seems specific to this formalized, permanent list-making exercise, unlike his usual, more flexible list creation.
List Finality Agreement
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(00:03:49)
  • Key Takeaway: The hosts debate the permanence of the list, with Sean initially regretting the ‘conceit’ of declaring a final truth, but they agree that subsequent individual movie episodes allow for ongoing discussion.
  • Summary: The conversation establishes the recording date as March 12, 2025, and questions whether the list finalized in this meeting must remain immutable. They confirm that dedicating 25 subsequent episodes to individual films provides a venue to discuss movies that were cut. The possibility of a new film debuting at Cannes and displacing a current selection is raised, though replacing an already-decided film causes Sean immediate panic.
Personality Flip in List Making
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(00:06:37)
  • Key Takeaway: Amanda suggests that in the context of list-making and the podcast, the hosts’ personalities flip, with the usually anxious Sean exhibiting high confidence, while Amanda feels less pressure.
  • Summary: Amanda observes that outside of list-making, she perceives Sean as the more anxious person, suggesting a personality reversal occurs during this specific project. Sean attributes his confidence to knowing his taste, knowing Amanda’s taste, and understanding the project’s goals. Amanda then presents a list titled: ‘These would make the list more well-rounded and less predictable.’
Initial List Generation Process
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(00:07:42)
  • Key Takeaway: The initial list creation required submissions from January 1, 2000, onward, with the critical constraint of only one film per filmmaker to prevent over-selection of established favorites like Tarantino or Fincher.
  • Summary: The process began with Sean creating a long list, which followed the 2000-present eligibility rule and the one-film-per-director constraint. Amanda details her list creation occurred during a date night in Palm Springs, aided by input from Zach, and resulted in 35 initial suggestions. Sean noted his initial list was weak on international and animation films and deliberately left the Spielberg selection open.
Reviewing Initial Selections
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(00:13:08)
  • Key Takeaway: The first film discussed from the initial long list is There Will Be Blood, which Sean almost forgot but was prompted to include by a follow-up text from Amanda.
  • Summary: The first film reviewed is There Will Be Blood, which Sean immediately followed with The Master, establishing Paul Thomas Anderson as a key director. The discussion moves to No Country for Old Men, which Amanda prefers less than other Coen Brothers films like A Serious Man or Inside Llewyn Davis because it feels less representative of their core Coen appreciation.
Magazine Journalism Influence
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(00:15:54)
  • Key Takeaway: The hosts’ background as magazine journalists influences their list-making approach, balancing sincere critical assessment with the cynical packaging required to provoke public attention.
  • Summary: The hosts provide context on their careers as recovering magazine journalists who specialized in creating list packages and supporting editorial content. They acknowledge that list-making involves both sincere critical effort and a cynical component aimed at provoking audience engagement. The Dark Knight is cited as a film that embodies both the sincere critical achievement and the populist choice.
Gerwig and Apatow Comedy Picks
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(00:18:52)
  • Key Takeaway: For Greta Gerwig, Lady Bird is prioritized over Little Women as the debut feature is valued over the adaptation, while for Apatow-era comedy, Anchorman is favored over Superbad due to better female character representation.
  • Summary: Amanda prefers Lady Bird as the original debut feature over the ‘genius adaptation’ of Little Women, despite acknowledging the latter’s artistry. The discussion on comedy pivots from Superbad to Anchorman, with the justification that Anchorman features a more essential female character in Christine Applegate compared to Emma Stone’s sketch-like role in Superbad.
Fincher and Scorsese Conundrums
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(00:29:05)
  • Key Takeaway: The rule limiting one film per director forces a difficult choice between David Fincher’s Zodiac (favorite) and The Social Network (most representative of the era), with the latter ultimately being favored.
  • Summary: The hosts debate Fincher, acknowledging Zodiac as Sean’s favorite but The Social Network as the better representation of the 2010s and their preferred style, despite concerns it might be lost on younger audiences. For Scorsese, The Wolf of Wall Street is chosen over The Departed and Silence for its superior fusion of big ideas, craft, and thrilling entertainment value.
Consensus vs. Counter-Programming
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(00:34:25)
  • Key Takeaway: The hosts recognize that their alignment with consensus picks like Parasite indicates they are now part of the ‘mainstream target’ consumer base, which conflicts with the desire to champion less obvious choices.
  • Summary: The discussion on Parasite leads to a realization that their agreement with the Best Picture winner suggests they are no longer going against the grain. Amanda notes that as they age, they may subconsciously favor celebrated films to communicate generational power rather than seeking out counter-programming. Something’s Gotta Give is selected over The Intern as the height of Nancy Meyers’ power.
Action and Recent Cinema Gaps
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(00:52:04)
  • Key Takeaway: The inclusion of multiple action blockbusters (Mad Max Fury Road, Mission Impossible Fallout, Top Gun Maverick) raises redundancy concerns, while recent 2022 films like Tar are notably absent from the current short list.
  • Summary: The presence of several major action sequels prompts a debate about redundancy, potentially forcing the removal of Mad Max Fury Road. Top Gun Maverick is emotionally significant for Sean due to its post-pandemic theatrical impact, but it may not make the final cut. Critically, no films from 2020 onward are currently on the short list, leaving Tar unplaced despite high regard.
Oscar Wins and Oppenheimer Debate
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(00:54:21)
  • Key Takeaway: The hosts acknowledge that Oppenheimer winning Best Picture, despite some disagreement, reflects a moment where the Academy selected what they felt was the best film.
  • Summary: The segment opens with a brief mention of Robert Downey Jr. and disagreement over Oppenheimer’s success. Amanda Dobbins accepts the Academy’s choice, stating sometimes the best movie wins, concluding that at age 40, one must accept the results.
Top Gun Maverick’s Cultural Importance
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(00:54:40)
  • Key Takeaway: Top Gun Maverick is recognized as a deeply important film for cinema and the global community’s return to theaters post-pandemic, despite its potential exclusion from the final 25 list.
  • Summary: The speaker details the personal significance of seeing Top Gun Maverick as their first theater trip after having their son, emphasizing its role in reopening the world. The film is described as a blockbuster machine that works on multiple levels, understandable by both young children and older generations.
Top Gun Maverick as ‘Force Awakens’ Theory
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(00:56:20)
  • Key Takeaway: Top Gun Maverick is theorized to be the Star Wars: The Force Awakens for audiences addicted to movie stars, offering familiar comfort dressed up with new technology.
  • Summary: A theory is pitched that Top Gun Maverick provides familiar, comfortable elements, similar to The Force Awakens. The speaker counters that Maverick is much better crafted and more entertaining than The Force Awakens, even if it lacks true invention.
Defending Maverick Against Snootiness
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(00:57:29)
  • Key Takeaway: Amanda Dobbins accuses Sean Fennessey of being ‘snooty’ about Top Gun Maverick after she felt she was kind when discussing his preferred films, such as Silence.
  • Summary: The speaker defends their appreciation for Top Gun Maverick, suggesting the other host is being overly critical. The argument references past discussions where the speaker felt they ‘held space’ for the other host’s choices, like Silence.
Wes Anderson Selections and Eligibility
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(00:58:17)
  • Key Takeaway: The Royal Tenenbaums is confirmed for inclusion, partly due to Gene Hackman’s passing, while Rushmore is ineligible as it predates the 21st century.
  • Summary: The hosts confirm The Royal Tenenbaums will make the list, noting that Rushmore is excluded because it was released before 2000. The speaker claims they successfully persuaded the other host to rank The Royal Tenenbaums highly among Wes Anderson’s work.
Lars Von Trier’s Melancholia Inclusion
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(00:59:24)
  • Key Takeaway: Melancholia is included as a personal favorite that perfectly encapsulates themes of depression and the end of the world, despite Lars Von Trier being a controversial director.
  • Summary: The hosts discuss whether to include two Lars Von Trier films, noting Melancholia’s appeal due to its stars, Kirsten Dunst and Alexander Skarsgård. They list several other eligible but controversial Von Trier films, acknowledging the director’s genius despite his problematic status.
European vs. Asian Cinema Representation
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(01:00:47)
  • Key Takeaway: The hosts observe that their list currently features surprisingly few European filmmakers, contrasting with an expected strong showing for Asian cinema, reflecting their Hollywood-centric upbringing.
  • Summary: The speaker notes the low count of European directors on the list, which Melancholia helps balance slightly. They reiterate that their background as ’two children raised on Hollywood’ likely influences the current imbalance favoring American cinema over European cinema.
Ang Lee’s Influence and Crouching Tiger
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(01:01:18)
  • Key Takeaway: Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon is a significant film that introduced Wuxia style to a large American arthouse/Oscar crowd, especially following The Matrix.
  • Summary: The hosts debate including Ang Lee’s Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, noting Lee’s two Best Director wins. The film is praised for synthesizing 70s action and 90s Hong Kong styles, making it a huge phenomenon for college students interested in the Oscars.
Spike Lee Representation: 25th Hour vs. Inside Man
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(01:03:08)
  • Key Takeaway: The hosts agree that only one Spike Lee film from the 21st century can make the list, favoring 25th Hour over Inside Man, despite Inside Man featuring Denzel Washington.
  • Summary: The speaker champions 25th Hour as a favorite, while acknowledging Inside Man is also loved. They conclude that most of Spike Lee’s top-tier work falls in the 80s and 90s, making a single 21st-century pick difficult.
David Lynch and James Gray Picks
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(01:04:17)
  • Key Takeaway: Mulholland Drive is confirmed as the necessary David Lynch entry, while The Lost City of Z is championed as the preferred James Gray film over The Immigrant or Two Lovers.
  • Summary: The hosts quickly agree on Mulholland Drive, dismissing Twin Peaks: The Return as television. They express a strong desire to include a James Gray film, settling on The Lost City of Z for the list.
The Devil Wears Prada’s Cultural Role
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(01:05:11)
  • Key Takeaway: The Devil Wears Prada is acknowledged as a hugely influential, well-made film starring major female actors in a non-romantic comedy role, though it may not meet the ‘best 25’ criteria.
  • Summary: The speaker argues for The Devil Wears Prada’s importance in explaining the fashion industry and providing a rare, non-rom-com vehicle for major actresses. Despite acknowledging its validity, the other host suggests it doesn’t need to make the final cut.
Kenneth Lonergan’s Impact and Margaret
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(01:06:19)
  • Key Takeaway: Margaret is highly regarded by the hosts, who both found it emotionally devastating, but its inclusion is complicated by its high eBay resale price after a personal lending mishap.
  • Summary: Both hosts express deep affection for Kenneth Lonergan’s films, particularly Margaret, which pulverized them emotionally. The segment includes a humorous anecdote about the Blu-ray copy of Margaret being lost to an acquaintance, driving up its current out-of-print cost.
Action Film Exclusion and Doug Lyman
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(01:07:46)
  • Key Takeaway: The Bourne Identity is rejected as overrated, and Edge of Tomorrow is also deemed unlikely to make the list due to existing action movie slots already filled by Mission Impossible Fallout and Top Gun Maverick.
  • Summary: The hosts dismiss The Bourne Identity as overrated, with one host noting a hypothetical third party would support this view. They decide against Edge of Tomorrow because the list is already saturated with action films featuring Tom Cruise.
Amanda’s ‘Cute or Not Cute Enough’ Picks
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(01:08:33)
  • Key Takeaway: Amanda Dobbins created a secondary list of films to ensure the main list wasn’t too predictable, including Hereditary, Margaret, Uncut Gems, and The Master, which are often considered ‘persona’ picks.
  • Summary: The hosts review a list titled ‘Are We Being Too Cute or Not Cute Enough by Ignoring,’ which features films like Hereditary and Uncut Gems. This list contrasts with the speaker’s ‘person’ picks, like Talk to Her and Wendy and Lucy, highlighting the tension between persona and genuine preference.
Woody Allen Controversy and Haneke Films
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(01:11:21)
  • Key Takeaway: Midnight in Paris is deemed entertaining but excluded due to the controversy surrounding Woody Allen, while Michael Haneke’s challenging films like Caché and The Piano Teacher are noted as strong contenders.
  • Summary: The hosts discuss Midnight in Paris, noting its charm and the audience’s enjoyment of its literary jokes, but ultimately exclude it due to the controversy surrounding the director. They list several Michael Haneke films, recognizing him as a genius-level, unsparing director.
The Tree of Life vs. The New World
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(01:12:41)
  • Key Takeaway: The Tree of Life is considered a near-certain inclusion, while The New World is less favored by the hosts, though it has strong defenders among critics.
  • Summary: The speaker states it will be hard to leave Terrence Malick’s The Tree of Life off the list, confirming its high standing. They note that while they prefer The New World, it doesn’t resonate as strongly with them personally.
Edgar Wright and Miyazaki Representation
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(01:13:02)
  • Key Takeaway: Edgar Wright’s Shaun of the Dead and Scott Pilgrim vs. The World are nominated for their self-aware craft, and Spirited Away is selected as the definitive Miyazaki entry for the list.
  • Summary: The hosts praise Edgar Wright for mastering self-awareness without sacrificing craft in modern movies. They confirm Spirited Away (2001) is likely the only Miyazaki film eligible, as the speaker’s personal favorite, Princess Mononoke, is from 1997.
Clint Eastwood and A.O. Scott’s Ranking
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(01:14:39)
  • Key Takeaway: Clint Eastwood’s post-2000 films are considered, with Sully being favored over Million Dollar Baby, which A.O. Scott controversially ranked third on a 21st-century list.
  • Summary: The hosts debate which Clint Eastwood film to include, settling on Sully as a strong candidate. They recall A.O. Scott placing Million Dollar Baby at number three on a New York Times list, a ranking they both disagree with.
Villeneuve, Yorgos, and Action Film Influence
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(01:16:19)
  • Key Takeaway: Denis Villeneuve’s Arrival is noted as missing, though Sicario is suggested as a replacement, while Yorgos Lanthimos’s The Lobster is preferred over The Favourite for inclusion.
  • Summary: The hosts acknowledge the absence of Villeneuve and the popularity of Arrival among younger critics, suggesting Sicario as a strong alternative. They agree that The Lobster is the best Yorgos Lanthimos entry for the list, citing its funny and insightful nature.
Lord of the Rings Exclusion and Pixar Gap
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(01:18:22)
  • Key Takeaway: Despite the cultural phenomenon of Peter Jackson’s The Lord of the Rings trilogy, the first installment is currently excluded from the list, mirroring the absence of any Pixar films.
  • Summary: The hosts express shock that The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring is not on the current list, recalling the excitement when it premiered. They also note the complete lack of Pixar movies, including WALL-E.
Current List Status and Hard Cuts
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(01:20:25)
  • Key Takeaway: The hosts review the current working list, which necessitated removing major films like There Will Be Blood (later reinstated), Whiplash, Moonlight, and all Steven Spielberg movies.
  • Summary: Sean Fennessey presents the edited list, noting that There Will Be Blood replaced Almost Famous after the initial draft. The hard cuts reveal significant omissions, including all Spielberg films and major comedies like Superbad.
Absence of Major Directors and Stars
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(01:25:40)
  • Key Takeaway: The current list features zero films by major directors like Clint Eastwood, M. Night Shyamalan, James Cameron, or Noah Baumbach, and excludes major stars like Ryan Gosling and Emma Stone.
  • Summary: The hosts detail the striking absence of numerous prominent directors (e.g., Soderbergh, Bigelow, Glazer) and major contemporary stars from the list. They specifically point out that only one Best Picture winner and one comic book movie currently remain.
Final Top 10 Ranking Reveal
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(01:41:38)
  • Key Takeaway: The final confirmed top 10 places Marie Antoinette at 10, followed by Mad Max: Fury Road (9), Parasite (8), In the Mood for Love (7), and Mulholland Drive (6), demonstrating a strong commitment to auteur cinema.
  • Summary: The hosts finalize the order for the top ten films, agreeing to move Melancholia down to 20 to create better flow. The top tier is characterized by canonical works spanning social thrillers, action epics, and yearning romances.
Tarantino Placement and Viewing Experience
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(01:46:20)
  • Key Takeaway: Quentin Tarantino’s Inglourious Basterds is declared the speaker’s favorite of his 21st-century work, though the speaker admits their ability to enjoy films purely as a viewer has diminished due to their profession.
  • Summary: The hosts confirm Inglourious Basterds at number four, despite acknowledging the quality of Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. The speaker reflects that their deep knowledge of filmmaking prevents the simple, joyful rewatching experience they once had.
Tarantino Film Preference Debate
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(01:47:16)
  • Key Takeaway: One host definitively prefers Inglourious Basterds as their favorite Tarantino film over Once Upon a Time in Hollywood and even Pulp Fiction.
  • Summary: The speaker states that Inglourious Basterds is a ‘perfectly constructed masterwork’ and their favorite Tarantino film, full stop. This preference is maintained despite acknowledging Once Upon a Time in Hollywood as also being excellent. The speaker notes they came to Pulp Fiction later in life, which may influence their current ranking.
Director Primacy Struggle
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(01:49:44)
  • Key Takeaway: The selection process involves a ‘death struggle for primacy’ among the speaker’s favorite directors: Quentin Tarantino, Paul Thomas Anderson, Spike Lee, and David Fincher.
  • Summary: The speaker identifies four key directors whose work is currently engaged in a competitive ranking for their heart. These four filmmakers are credited with switching the speaker on to a ton of cinema over the years. The discussion confirms Inglourious Basterds over Once Upon a Time in Hollywood to resolve the Tarantino conflict.
PTA Film Ranking Justification
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(01:51:29)
  • Key Takeaway: Paul Thomas Anderson’s There Will Be Blood is confirmed at rank #3, while The Master is deemed superior to There Will Be Blood only in its acknowledgement of Philip Seymour Hoffman’s importance.
  • Summary: There Will Be Blood is locked in at number three on the list, despite the acknowledgment that The Master would be a cool pick honoring Philip Seymour Hoffman. The speaker confirms they do not believe The Master is superior to There Will Be Blood in overall quality.
Major Director Omissions Discussion
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(01:52:28)
  • Key Takeaway: The list currently lacks films by Steven Soderbergh and Steven Spielberg because their signature, best work for the century was not produced during this period.
  • Summary: The absence of Soderbergh is noted, with the caveat that his eligible films like Out of Sight or The Limey might have qualified him. Spielberg is also absent, operating in a similar space where his best 21st-century output was not deemed list-worthy, though The Fabelmans is mentioned as having a case.
Nolan Film Swap and Sequencing Adjustments
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(01:53:33)
  • Key Takeaway: The Dark Knight is removed from the list in favor of Terrence Malick’s The Tree of Life, and Children of Men is added to the list.
  • Summary: The removal of The Dark Knight is justified by arguing The Tree of Life is superior, and one host suggests Oppenheimer should be Nolan’s entry if any were to be included. The hosts then make sequencing adjustments, moving The Tree of Life to position 16 and adding Children of Men.
Finalizing List and Next Steps
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(01:58:00)
  • Key Takeaway: The hosts agree to allow for an addendum or further changes to the list before the December recording, concluding the current session with satisfaction over the changes made.
  • Summary: The speakers express satisfaction with the changes made collaboratively, particularly the inclusion of Children of Men and the removal of The Dark Knight. They confirm that Michael Clayton is not changing and that the list will likely face public scrutiny before the official release.