Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend

Tom Holland and Dominic Sandbrook of The Rest Is History Podcast

October 20, 2025

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  • Conan O'Brien expressed extreme admiration for the guests' podcast, *The Rest Is History*, admitting it surpassed his own in quality. 
  • The conversation highlighted the unique comedic approach of Dominic Sandbrook and Tom Holland, who find humor in the grimmest historical events, such as World War I. 
  • The guests and Conan agreed that history often serves as a cyclical reminder that current dire situations have been surpassed by worse events in the past, offering perspective on modern anxieties. 
  • The primary focus of this segment of "Conan O'Brien Needs A Friend" is consulting the show's "fake lawyer," David Melmed, regarding the legality and potential copyright infringement issues of singing popular songs on the podcast. 
  • David Melmed's legal advice regarding singing copyrighted material is consistently non-committal, summarized as "maybe," emphasizing the need to seek permission, especially when dealing with estates of deceased artists like Robert Palmer. 
  • The conversation briefly pivots into personal compliments directed at David Melmed regarding his appearance (tan, salt-and-pepper hair) before returning to the legal topic, concluding with the decision to continue the discussion in a future part two. 

Segments

Podcast Intro and Guest Welcome
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(00:00:02)
  • Key Takeaway: Dominic Sandbrook and Tom Holland expressed their excitement about being Conan O’Brien’s friends, using the words ‘aroused’ and ‘chuffed,’ respectively.
  • Summary: The episode opens with advertisements for The Naked Gun and New York Presbyterian The One. Dominic Sandbrook and Tom Holland introduce themselves, noting their feelings about being friends with Conan O’Brien. Conan then sings a short song before welcoming the guests properly.
Sona Mobsessian’s Absence
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(00:02:05)
  • Key Takeaway: Sona Mobsessian is absent because she is a featured guest speaker at a convention specifically for tech company assistants.
  • Summary: Conan notes Sona Mobsessian’s absence, joking about her empty chair. He learns she is speaking at an assistants’ convention, specifically for tech company assistants. Conan and Matt Gorley joke about the potential disastrous nature of her speech topic.
Checking in with Matt Gorley
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(00:04:43)
  • Key Takeaway: Matt Gorley’s young daughter, who will soon be four, is described as ruling the house and dictating lines during playtime.
  • Summary: Conan shifts focus to check in with Matt Gorley, who reports his daughter is funny but acts like an ‘absolute Mussolini’ at home. Gorley mentions that his daughter dictates the lines they use when they play together.
Conan’s Film Promotion and Guest History
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(00:06:17)
  • Key Takeaway: Conan is preparing to promote a new film he is in, which he finds to be a novel experience.
  • Summary: Conan mentions he is heading to New York to promote a film, a task he finds unusual. He suggests a reciprocal podcast appearance where he and the guests switch roles. Conan then reads the formal introduction for Tom Holland and Dominic Sandbrook.
Podcast Addiction and Historical Humor
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(00:08:12)
  • Key Takeaway: Conan confessed to being addicted to The Rest Is History, having listened to possibly 300-400 of their 800 episodes, and compared the excitement of meeting them to meeting George Harrison.
  • Summary: Conan admits his large ego was humbled by the quality of The Rest Is History, calling it the greatest podcast. He praises their ability to blend humor with grim historical facts, citing laughing about the Kaiser during discussions of World War I. The guests suggest history’s inherent absurdity makes it a dark comedy.
Facial Hair and Historical Figures
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(00:13:14)
  • Key Takeaway: Dominic Sandbrook and Tom Holland frequently focus on absurd facial hair in historical figures, noting that American generals historically had poorer moustache action than their European counterparts, except during the Civil War.
  • Summary: Conan points out the hosts’ obsession with facial hair, noting they often cackle over generals’ beards. They briefly debate American versus European facial hair, acknowledging the strong beards of the Civil War era. The discussion pivots to Custer, whose thinning hair might have influenced his aggressive tactics.
Battle of Little Bighorn Personalities
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(00:16:31)
  • Key Takeaway: Conan mistakenly believed the hosts hated Benteen, a figure from the Battle of the Little Bighorn, who was described as having ‘cold and sinister intelligence’ lurking beneath a cordial exterior.
  • Summary: The discussion moves to the Battle of the Little Bighorn, focusing on Major Benteen and Major Reno. Conan compares himself to Reno, who allegedly had to be ’trussed up like a hog’ due to losing his nerve. The hosts clarify their nuanced view of Benteen, contrasting him with the panicking Reno.
British vs. French Culinary Preferences
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(00:24:32)
  • Key Takeaway: Dominic Sandbrook strongly dislikes French desserts, leading to a debate where he asserts the British superiority in ‘pudding’ over French ’tarts.’
  • Summary: Tom Holland views the French as the ‘coolest of enemies’ because defeating them is sweeter, given France’s historical power. Conan presses Dominic on his loathing of the French, despite his knowledge of the language. The segment concludes with a heated disagreement over the merits of British pudding versus French desserts.
Favorite Historical Heroes
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(00:25:47)
  • Key Takeaway: Both Dominic Sandbrook and Tom Holland name Admiral Lord Nelson as their favorite historical hero, while Conan favors Abraham Lincoln for his multifaceted greatness.
  • Summary: The guests confirm Nelson is their shared favorite, noting that figures from antiquity are too morally remote to admire. Conan champions Lincoln as an author, humanitarian, and statesman, leading to a brief debate over the fairness of labeling Mary Lincoln a ‘monster.’
Historical Perspective on Modern Times
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(00:42:54)
  • Key Takeaway: History provides reassurance that current global issues are often less severe than past crises, such as the plague and famine of the 6th century AD, and that there has never been a true ‘golden past.’
  • Summary: Conan uses history to calm younger listeners worried about current events, emphasizing that things have been much worse, citing 1914 or 1861 as examples. The hosts note that modern life is generally longer and healthier due to advancements like antibiotics and dentistry. They conclude that the cyclical nature of human conflict means there is no perfect historical era to return to.
Carvana Advertisement Read
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(00:52:02)
  • Key Takeaway: Carvana allows users to sell their car in minutes, offering pickup or drop-off at vending machines.
  • Summary: Carvana advertises a quick process for selling a car, which can be completed in minutes. They offer the convenience of picking up the vehicle from the seller’s door or allowing drop-off at their car vending machines. Pickup fees may apply for this service.
National Debt Relief Ad
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(00:52:25)
  • Key Takeaway: National Debt Relief offers financial relief options for those with $10,000 or more in credit card debt.
  • Summary: Financial relief options are available for individuals owing $10,000 or more in credit card debt through National Debt Relief. Qualified applicants may pay back significantly less than the owed amount, potentially saving thousands. The service aims for debt freedom through one low monthly program payment.
Introducing Fake Lawyer David Melmed
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(00:53:19)
  • Key Takeaway: Conan O’Brien consults David Melmed, his ‘fake lawyer,’ about the legality of singing popular songs on “Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend.”
  • Summary: The need to consult David Melmed arose from a prior discussion concerning copyright infringement risks associated with singing popular songs on the podcast. Melmed is introduced as a universally well-liked figure within Team Coco, despite never having practiced law or graduated from law school.
Copyright Law on Singing Songs
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(00:54:52)
  • Key Takeaway: The legal answer to whether Conan can sing songs on the podcast is “maybe,” contingent on intended use and distribution.
  • Summary: David Melmed initially answers the copyright question with a non-definitive “maybe,” noting that music is a controversial topic in podcasting law. He outlines a two-step approach: first determining the intended use, and second, determining the distribution method. An example involving singing a Robert Palmer song was used to illustrate the scenario.
Negotiation Tactics and Robert Palmer
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(00:58:53)
  • Key Takeaway: Singing a song poorly might be used as a negotiation tactic to argue that the performance does not promote the original artist’s discography.
  • Summary: Conan questioned whether singing a Robert Palmer song would promote his discography or disparage it, suggesting that a poor rendition might argue against needing to pay a fee. Melmed confirmed that the argument could be used in fee negotiations, though permission is still the goal.
David Melmed’s Appearance and Genetics
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(00:59:35)
  • Key Takeaway: David Melmed attributes his deep, glowing tan to genetics, noting his parents in their 80s look like they are in their 60s.
  • Summary: Conan questioned David Melmed about his suspiciously deep bronze tan, asking if he uses a tanning light. Melmed stated he does not tan artificially, attributing his appearance to genetics, suggesting a Middle Eastern lineage contributes to his glow. Conan also complimented Melmed’s salt-and-pepper hair.
Fair Use and De Minimis Use
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(01:02:10)
  • Key Takeaway: The concept of ‘de minimis use’ (a small enough amount of copyrighted material that a court won’t litigate) is often cited but does not automatically negate copyright infringement.
  • Summary: Melmed confirmed that even humming a recognizable melody, like Nirvana’s, could still require payment, stating the conservative answer is ‘yes’ regarding payment obligations. He mentioned that while ‘de minimis use’ is often cited, committing the copyright act means one must still address it. Jeff Ross reportedly loves the term ‘de minimis.’
Episode Wrap-up and Credits
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(01:03:50)
  • Key Takeaway: The hosts decided to continue the legal discussion regarding singing songs on the podcast in a forthcoming part two.
  • Summary: The segment concluded with the decision to make the discussion with David Melmed a two-parter to fully cover the remaining legal questions. Credits followed, listing producers, engineering support, and theme music by The White Stripes. Listeners were encouraged to subscribe and call the Team Coco hotline.