The Joe Rogan Experience

Jre Mma Show 170 With Michael Venom Page

October 3, 2025

Key Takeaways Copied to clipboard!

  • Michael "Venom" Page's unique point-fighting style, emphasizing speed and elusiveness, is seen by Joe Rogan as a missing and highly advantageous element in modern MMA, provided takedown defense is solved. 
  • Page's early career was marked by intense criticism and hate despite viral moments, which he attributes partly to the frustration his unfamiliar style causes opponents, exemplified by the Jared Cannonier fight. 
  • The conversation highlighted the extreme physical trauma of Page's knockout victory over Cyborg, which doctors compared to injuries typically only seen in car accidents, underscoring the devastating potential of his striking. 
  • In professional fighting, marketability and the ability to create noise are often prioritized by promoters over pure win records, necessitating that fighters actively market themselves. 
  • The mental aspect of fighting in the UFC, particularly the pressure of the platform, can cause nervousness even in experienced fighters, contrasting with the relative calm felt in earlier promotions like Bellator. 
  • The current generation of MMA talent is exceptionally high-caliber due to growing up watching elite fighters, leading to a higher baseline skill level across almost every division. 
  • Natural talent without overcoming adversity can lead to a lack of true competitive will, as early ease of success does not test a fighter's character. 
  • Growing up around hostile males, such as older brothers, provides a significant competitive advantage by normalizing hostility and aggression. 
  • The modern trend of overprotecting individuals and eliminating competitive challenges, like being picked last, hinders the development of necessary resilience for real life and high-level competition. 
  • Training and fight scheduling for female MMA athletes, particularly concerning menstrual cycles and weight cutting, should be tailored to biological differences rather than relying on male-centric training structures. 
  • Michael "Venom" Page's distinctive fighting style, characterized by flashy kicks and feints, is rooted in his background in points fighting and martial gymnastics, where he learned to 'attach strings' to opponents by reading their reactions. 
  • Michael "Venom" Page is actively pursuing creative endeavors outside of fighting, including directing and producing short films focused on athlete mindset and anxiety, as preparation for his post-fighting career. 

Segments

MVP’s Style and Criticism
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(00:00:14)
  • Key Takeaway: Michael “Venom” Page appreciates Joe Rogan for championing his unique style against early criticism in MMA.
  • Summary: Page noted receiving significant hate after his first viral kick, but valued prominent figures like Rogan supporting the points element of his fighting. Rogan stated he had been calling for point fighters in MMA since the early 2000s, recognizing their unique skill set of closing distance and elusiveness. This style is compared to a combination of fencing and MMA, focusing on speed rather than raw power.
Point Fighting Precedent in MMA
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(00:02:07)
  • Key Takeaway: Other point fighting specialists like Stephen ‘Wonder Boy’ Thompson and Raymond Daniels paved the way for Page’s crossover success.
  • Summary: The conversation referenced other point fighters who successfully crossed over, specifically mentioning Wonder Boy Thompson and Raymond Daniels. Rogan recalled fighting point fighting tournaments himself and recognizing the unique skill set that MMA lacked due to fighters being too flat-footed. Page’s success is viewed as the proof of concept that a world champion in point fighting can solve the grappling hurdles in MMA.
Psychological Warfare and Frustration
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(00:03:20)
  • Key Takeaway: Page’s unfamiliar style is inherently frustrating for opponents, forcing them to think and react outside their established patterns.
  • Summary: Page’s style is described as psychologically warfare, exemplified by his interaction with Jared Cannonier where he told him to ‘Calm down’ after landing a strike. Opponents unfamiliar with this style struggle because they have few people to train against who possess this specific skill set. This forces opponents to think and react in real-time, which is exhausting and depletes their energy reserves.
The Cyborg Knockout Aftermath
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(00:06:54)
  • Key Takeaway: The knockout of Cyborg was one of the most gruesome injuries ever seen in MMA, described by doctors as unprecedented in the sport.
  • Summary: The Cyborg fight knockout was described as having a sound like a baseball bat hitting a pumpkin. Doctors reportedly stated they had only seen that level of facial/head trauma in car accidents, not in MMA. Page felt awkward meeting Cyborg two years later, especially after one of his teammates broke Cyborg’s student’s leg in a subsequent fight.
Transition from Point Fighting
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(00:13:20)
  • Key Takeaway: Page retired from professional point fighting because the circuit offered no financial recognition or sponsorship despite achieving world titles.
  • Summary: Page explained that despite winning world titles, he received no recognition or sponsorship in point fighting, having to pay for everything himself. He decided to retire from that discipline to focus on a career where he could compete for a living, leading him to explore MMA gyms like American Top Team in Miami. He ultimately chose London Shoot Fighters, despite initially planning to move to the US.
Early Grappling Humiliation
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(00:19:26)
  • Key Takeaway: Page experienced intense initial humiliation in grappling training, tapping out constantly, but he enjoyed the challenge of learning something completely new.
  • Summary: Page had zero prior grappling experience when starting at London Shoot Fighters, leading to him being submitted (’tapping’) every two seconds. He enjoyed this feeling of humiliation because it was a novel challenge, contrasting sharply with his dominance in point fighting. This experience was compared to being twisted into a pretzel by someone he felt he could easily defeat on the street.
Childhood Competition Dynamics
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(00:20:03)
  • Key Takeaway: Page was consistently beaten by his older brothers in point fighting competitions for years before an instantaneous shift in skill occurred after one specific tournament win.
  • Summary: For years, Page was consistently destroyed by his more talented brothers in weekend competitions, forcing him to sit and watch the senior fighters. After winning an ISKA qualifiers tournament, a ‘click’ happened, and he instantly began dominating the same opponents who previously beat him. This shift was attributed partly to being a visual learner who absorbed technique by watching high-level athletes compete live.
Origin of ‘Venom’ Nickname
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(00:30:06)
  • Key Takeaway: The nickname ‘Venom’ originated from Page’s creative, unconventional striking style, inspired by Kung Fu movies like ‘The Five Deadly Venoms’.
  • Summary: Page earned the nickname ‘Venom’ around age nine because even though he was losing to adults, his strikes had an impact, suggesting he ‘got some venom’ in him. He was always creative, refusing conventional techniques and incorporating moves inspired by martial arts films. This inherent creativity and refusal to follow standard patterns is what gives him an advantage in MMA by disrupting opponent recognition.
Elite Fighter Mindsets Compared
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(00:35:17)
  • Key Takeaway: Fighters like Israel Adesanya and Ilia Topuria demonstrate elite mental toughness and unconventional routines that defy standard sports science.
  • Summary: Adesanya’s willingness to attempt a flying knee in a title fight showcases supreme confidence, contrasting with the speed of heavyweights like Tom Aspinall, who moves like a middleweight. Ilia Topuria’s routine involves extreme fasting for weight cuts and skipping traditional recovery methods like saunas or cold plunges, relying instead on sheer mental fortitude. This highlights that while structure is important, outliers succeed through unparalleled mental toughness and unique approaches.
Marketing and Self-Promotion
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(00:53:44)
  • Key Takeaway: Fighters must actively market themselves using concise, memorable phrases and distinct personas, as performance alone is insufficient for promotion.
  • Summary: Promoters favor fighters who generate noise and marketability over those who only win quietly. Michael ‘Venom’ Page studied figures like The Rock to develop his own marketable persona, including specific stances and concise sayings. This proactive self-marketing was crucial even before social media became dominant.
Authenticity and Marketing Icons
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(00:55:21)
  • Key Takeaway: Authenticity is vital in fighter marketing, exemplified by Conor McGregor’s ability to generate merchandise-worthy lines instantly.
  • Summary: Authenticity is considered an important component of successful self-marketing in MMA. Conor McGregor is cited as taking self-promotion to a new level, where a single line can immediately translate into merchandise. Michael ‘Venom’ Page also studied Dwayne ‘The Rock’ Johnson’s crowd control and simple, effective sayings.
UFC Contract Volume
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(01:03:29)
  • Key Takeaway: The UFC currently has approximately 674 athletes under contract, contributing to slower matchmaking timelines.
  • Summary: The sheer volume of athletes under contract with the UFC (around 674) contributes to slower fight scheduling. This high volume, combined with new partnership integrations like the Paramount deal, creates logistical slowdowns in securing fights. Michael ‘Venom’ Page noted this felt even slower than his experience in Bellator.
Essential Skills for Young Fighters
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(01:12:26)
  • Key Takeaway: The two most crucial skills for aspiring MMA fighters to develop early are wrestling fundamentals and the ability to ‘point fight’ with distance control.
  • Summary: Wrestling should be the foundational base for any young martial artist to develop takedown defense and grappling understanding. Learning to ‘point fight,’ which involves distance control, footwork, and feints, is equally important for controlling engagements. These fundamentals allow a fighter to dictate where the fight occurs and avoid being dominated by superior grapplers.
Grappling Dominance vs. Finishing
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(01:17:17)
  • Key Takeaway: While wrestling is a beautiful art, dominant ground control without attempts to finish the fight is frustrating to watch and less indicative of a true warrior mentality.
  • Summary: The discussion criticized wrestlers who take opponents down only to hold position defensively without attempting damage or submissions, calling it boring. Fighters like Khabib Nurmagomedov were praised because their grappling dominance involved actively trying to finish the fight, which is appreciated by fans. The aim of the sport should be to beat the opponent decisively, not just maintain a safe position.
Mental Hurdles in Fighting
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(01:38:35)
  • Key Takeaway: Fighting presents the biggest mental hurdle in sports because there is no team to fall back on, leading to immense pressure that can shrink even highly talented athletes.
  • Summary: The pressure of fighting is uniquely intense because failure is public and individual, unlike team sports. Super talented athletes sometimes struggle most because they never developed the drive to overcome small daily obstacles, leaving them untested when the lights are on. Michael ‘Venom’ Page manages this pressure by focusing on fun, smiling, and dancing to keep everything relaxed and enjoyable.
Talent Versus Will Development
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(01:42:06)
  • Key Takeaway: Gifts that come too easily prevent the development of the necessary will and drive to accumulate small, daily wins into a robust skill set.
  • Summary: A gift that comes too easily acts as a curse by preventing the development of real will and drive needed to pile up small wins. This can leave an individual untested when facing actual competition. Growing up with older brothers who could physically dominate prepared some fighters better for competition than those who were never tested at home.
Childhood Hostility and Competition Acclimation
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(01:42:38)
  • Key Takeaway: Constant, low-stakes physical conflict in childhood, especially with older siblings, fosters a unique readiness for competition by normalizing hostility.
  • Summary: Individuals raised fighting with older brothers are accustomed to constant hostility and domination from males, setting up a different competitive mindset. Conversely, growing up without such conflict leaves one unaccustomed to that level of aggression. This early exposure dictates how one handles competitive pressure later in life.
John Jones’ Competitive Upbringing
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(01:44:02)
  • Key Takeaway: Growing up in a household with multiple highly competitive, athletic ‘beasts’ like John Jones’ brothers provides a massive mindset benefit by normalizing hostility.
  • Summary: John Jones grew up in a house full of giant, highly competitive athletes, which meant he was accustomed to hostility and aggression from a young age. This environment creates a mindset benefit where competition is not overwhelming or a test one avoids. Many people find competition overwhelming because they were not conditioned for it.
Erosion of Competitive Challenges in Education
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(01:44:48)
  • Key Takeaway: Modern educational systems, particularly in the UK, have removed competitive selection processes, like team picking, which deprives children of learning from the negative feeling of being overlooked.
  • Summary: The school system has slowly removed elements that challenge people competitively, such as allowing team captains to pick players, to prevent children from feeling bad. The negative feeling of being picked last is crucial because it mirrors real-life consequences and drives improvement. Shielding children too much results in them being unprepared when real life hits.
Toughness Cycle and Complacency
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(01:46:01)
  • Key Takeaway: The cycle of ’tough men create good times, good times create soft men’ suggests that excessive comfort leads to overreaction to minor issues.
  • Summary: Creating too many ‘good times’ results in everyone complaining about even mildly bad situations, leading to focus on microaggressions. Hard competition provides focus, making minor grievances seem like giant distractions. Competitive sports like wrestling and martial arts are valuable because they teach that losing is okay and beneficial.
Training Accuracy Over Comfort
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(01:47:02)
  • Key Takeaway: Training drills must simulate reality accurately, even if uncomfortable, to ensure skills translate effectively to actual competition or real-world scenarios.
  • Summary: Instructors should not pull punches or avoid contact during drills, as this gives the trainee a false sense of competence in defense or technique. It is better to hit accurately in the gym so that skills are truly effective when tested later. Accuracy and getting the opponent used to contact are more important than hitting hard initially.
The Necessity of Hard Work and Purpose
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(01:48:07)
  • Key Takeaway: The human brain is wired with reward systems tied to completing difficult tasks, and a life devoid of necessary struggle leads to depression.
  • Summary: The feeling of being tired after a workout or the bad feeling from losing is beneficial because it builds emotional fitness. People seek shortcuts because they avoid the hard work necessary for brain reward systems built from tribal survival tasks. A life without necessary tasks, spent passively in front of Netflix, naturally leads to depression.
MVP’s First Fight Anxiety
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(01:50:07)
  • Key Takeaway: Michael ‘Venom’ Page experienced extreme internal stress and doubt before his very first fight, contrasting sharply with his later confident walkouts.
  • Summary: Before his first fight against Dishman, MVP was dying inside, questioning his decision to compete, despite his later energetic walkouts. Once the bell rang, the familiar environment of fighting took over, and his signature energy emerged. This initial fear was rooted in the decision to enter the competition itself.
Viral 720 Kick and Comment Backlash
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(01:52:12)
  • Key Takeaway: Michael ‘Venom’ Page’s viral 720 kick led to intense online negativity, demonstrating that viral success often attracts disproportionate criticism from detractors.
  • Summary: The spectacular 720 kick caused MVP’s early fights to go viral, leading to pullouts from opponents who saw the footage. Despite the incredible nature of the kick, MVP felt like he had ‘murdered someone’s child’ based on the negative comments he received online. This reinforced the idea that reading comments exposes one only to the opinions of the least thoughtful people.
Kickboxing vs. MMA Skill Sets
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(01:56:30)
  • Key Takeaway: Elite point-fighting kickboxers possess a skill set that makes them nearly untouchable to opponents unfamiliar with dealing with that specific range and movement.
  • Summary: The elite point fighters’ style, characterized by extreme distance management and constant movement, presents a unique puzzle that is difficult to solve in real-time MMA. Fighters like Raymond Jona were dangerous because their unique kicks and movement were unfamiliar to MMA competitors not accustomed to that specific skill set. Leg kicks proved to be a necessary counter to this style, forcing opponents to stop bouncing.
The Problem with Weight Cutting in MMA
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(02:00:03)
  • Key Takeaway: Extreme weight cutting is legalized cheating that severely depletes fighters’ bodies, compromising their health and performance on fight night.
  • Summary: Weight cutting is viewed as legalized cheating because champions often fight at weights significantly higher than their declared limit, creating a massive physical advantage. Fighters who maintain a healthy weight, like Frankie Edgar once did, benefit from superior endurance and recovery because they are not dehydrated. The short rehydration window (under 40 hours) is insufficient to fully recover from severe dehydration, which affects brain health.
TJ Dillashaw’s Extreme Weight Cut
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(02:10:50)
  • Key Takeaway: TJ Dillashaw’s cut to flyweight was so severe that he appeared like a hostage, illustrating the dangerous physical toll extreme dehydration takes on fighters.
  • Summary: Dillashaw looked like a ‘dead man’ and a ‘prisoner of war’ after cutting to flyweight to fight Henry Cejudo, demonstrating a catastrophic weight cut. This level of dehydration depletes the liquid around the brain, making a fighter unable to absorb strikes properly. Other fighters, like Travis Lutter, have also suffered debilitating effects from weight cutting, missing weight or being severely compromised during the fight.
Female Cycle Syncing in Training
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(02:29:57)
  • Key Takeaway: Training protocols, often designed from a male perspective, overlook the necessity for women to adjust training intensity based on their 28-day menstrual cycle.
  • Summary: Women have a 28-day cycle, unlike the 24-hour cycle men operate on, meaning there are specific times when they should train intensely or require relaxed sessions based on biometrics. This concept, applied to Pilates by Michael ‘Venom’ Page’s wife, shows that standard training advice often ignores fundamental biological differences. For instance, practices like ice baths may not be suitable for women at all times during their cycle.
Female Athlete Training Differences
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(02:30:29)
  • Key Takeaway: Female athletes require training and fight scheduling adjustments based on their menstrual cycle phases, unlike male athletes.
  • Summary: Training protocols, including intensity and recovery, should account for the female biological cycle, as stress tolerance differs significantly from men. This applies to scheduling fights and even specific recovery methods like ice baths, which may not be universally beneficial for women at all times. Ignoring these differences leads to applying a male-centric structure to female MMA competitors.
Plyometrics and Point Fighting Roots
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(02:32:24)
  • Key Takeaway: Michael “Venom” Page’s explosive movement stems from early training in martial gymnastics and point fighting kata drills.
  • Summary: Constant plyometric work was integrated into his training due to the requirements of martial gymnastics and performing complex kicks in points fighting forms. This foundational drilling allowed him to incorporate high-difficulty techniques, like 720 kicks, into live competition. This background informs his current strategy of using fakes to read and control opponents.
Fight Strategy and Attaching Strings
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(02:34:01)
  • Key Takeaway: Michael “Venom” Page uses initial fakes to gather data on an opponent’s reactions, which he calls ‘attaching strings’ to control movement.
  • Summary: The first minute of a fight is often dedicated to probing with feints to observe how the opponent twitches or reacts to specific movements. By mapping these reactions, he gains the ability to manipulate the opponent’s position like a puppet. This complex, underlying game is often missed by casual fans who only see random movement.
Future Fights and Weight Class
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(02:35:09)
  • Key Takeaway: Michael “Venom” Page is actively seeking his next fight, aiming to return to the Welterweight (170 lbs) division.
  • Summary: He is currently waiting for official fight announcements from the UFC, noting that Leon Edwards vs. Belal Muhammad is being scheduled at 170 lbs. Despite feeling large, he is committed to cutting back down to 170 lbs, expressing confidence in his stylistic advantage against fighters like JDM.
Creative Ventures and Post-Fighting Plans
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(02:36:37)
  • Key Takeaway: Michael “Venom” Page is developing a film company (ITM) to express his creative mind through storytelling-focused movies.
  • Summary: He has already produced two short films: ‘Runner,’ which explores the toxic mindset of an elite athlete, and ‘Wait,’ which parallels the anxiety of waiting for good versus bad news. He plans to transition fully into creative work upon retirement, ensuring he does not return to fighting, unlike many athletes whose identity is tied to competition.
Guest’s Business Ventures
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(02:40:26)
  • Key Takeaway: Michael “Venom” Page owns a beef jerky company called Snapdown Snacks and is invested in a UK-based Mexican restaurant.
  • Summary: He gifted Joe Rogan merchandise from his brand and Snapdown Snacks, which is named after wrestling takedowns. His restaurant has featured high-profile products like Kendall Jenner’s 818 Tequila and is expecting Jason Momoa’s Meili Vodka soon.