The Joe Rogan Experience

JRE MMA Show #171 with Brendan Allen

December 9, 2025

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  • The discussion opened with speculation about a potential UFC event at the White House featuring an unprecedented number of title fights, possibly including a BMF bout. 
  • Fighters face significant environmental challenges in outdoor bouts, as evidenced by anecdotes of slippery conditions in the rain and extreme heat in the desert. 
  • Brendan Allen's early career was shaped by tough, sometimes overly aggressive, sparring partners, leading him to value controlled training environments and recovery methods like hyperbaric chambers and supplements for longevity. 
  • Brendan Allen balances his demanding UFC career with being a full-time father to five children, emphasizing the need for strategic time off to mentally reset, similar to bodybuilder Ronnie Coleman. 
  • Allen's recent training camp change to Chicago was motivated by seeking a solution to complacency, which he identified as the core issue following his loss to 'Fluffy' (Sean Strickland). 
  • The conversation heavily emphasizes the danger of street violence and the importance of avoiding unnecessary conflict, contrasting the wisdom of professional fighters with the recklessness of untrained individuals in volatile social settings. 
  • Khamzat Chimaev's severe overtraining, specifically training intensely while sick with COVID-19, led to his hospitalization and immune system breakdown. 
  • The mental fortitude and extreme dedication of young, hungry fighters like Ansar, who work full-time jobs while training relentlessly, serve as a powerful motivator for established athletes. 
  • Mental preparation, including dissecting negative thoughts with the help of sports psychology and utilizing tools like Jocko Willink's 'Good' mantra, is crucial for high-level performance and overcoming pre-fight anxiety. 
  • The evolution of mixed martial arts competition from the early, less technical days (like 80s movies and early UFC) to the present day shows an unrecognizable leap in fighter skill and completeness. 
  • The conversation highlighted the deep, complex, and sometimes contentious lineage of the Gracie family in Jiu-Jitsu, including stories about early pioneers like Royce Gracie's role in the UFC and internal family dynamics. 
  • Brendan Allen expressed a strong desire to fight Derek Brunson, emphasizing that he seeks opponents who bring a dangerous, aggressive mindset rather than those who just 'hug' or treat the fight purely as a sport. 

Segments

White House UFC Event Speculation
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(00:00:16)
  • Key Takeaway: Donald Trump predicted an unprecedented eight or nine championship fights for a potential UFC event held at the White House.
  • Summary: The initial discussion centered on Donald Trump’s claim that the UFC was withholding title fights for a White House event scheduled around June 14th or 15th. Speakers noted the logistical oddity of having nine title fights when there are only eight weight classes, suggesting the inclusion of a BMF fight. The potential for John Jones to headline this event was deemed essential.
Outdoor Fight Environmental Hazards
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(00:01:58)
  • Key Takeaway: Fighting outdoors, especially in humid or rainy conditions, creates dangerous slipping hazards on the canvas, as demonstrated by the ‘King of the Cage Wet and Wild’ event.
  • Summary: The conversation explored the difficulties of outdoor fights, referencing a past King of the Cage event where fighters competed in pouring rain on what appeared to be a slick vinyl surface. Extreme humidity, like that in Louisiana, causes fighters to slip, and the potential for rain or high heat at the proposed White House event raises serious concerns about fighter safety and performance integrity.
Early MMA Training and Sparring Culture
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(00:11:30)
  • Key Takeaway: Brendan Allen began Jiu-Jitsu at age 13, and his early striking training involved sparring against older, established fighters who often fought rather than sparred with newcomers.
  • Summary: Allen started training Jiu-Jitsu after watching early UFC events, committing after his father bought him a gi. He began striking around age 15, enduring harsh training where older men would fight him instead of sparring properly, leading to painful experiences like thinking his jaw was broken. This environment contrasted sharply with the measured sparring approach later advocated by fighters like Sean Jordan.
Weight Cutting Ethics and Fighter Health
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(00:27:20)
  • Key Takeaway: The practice of extreme weight cutting, where fighters rehydrate by 40+ pounds post-weigh-in, is viewed by some as legalized cheating that negatively impacts fighter health.
  • Summary: The speakers questioned the ethics of weight cutting, noting fighters like Alex Pereira gained over 40 pounds between weigh-ins and the fight. They discussed the common, albeit unhealthy, tactic of drinking large amounts of water and holding urine to pass hydration tests while still being severely depleted. This practice is linked to long-term health issues, such as kidney problems, which Allen suspects contributed to a former opponent’s health struggles.
Fighting Through Severe Injuries
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(00:29:37)
  • Key Takeaway: Brendan Allen fought through a partially torn ACL and calf injuries during his bout with Paul Craig, and his ACL later healed by fusing to the bone without surgery.
  • Summary: Allen detailed fighting with significant injuries, including a calf tear and an ACL that tore in half during the Paul Craig fight. The torn ACL miraculously reattached lower down on the bone, fusing itself without requiring surgery, a process confirmed by subsequent MRIs. He credits stem cell treatments provided by the UFC for aiding in his recovery.
Recovery Science and Longevity
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(00:40:29)
  • Key Takeaway: Hyperbaric chambers have been shown in studies to lengthen telomeres, a key biological marker of aging, indicating significant anti-aging and recovery benefits.
  • Summary: The conversation shifted to advanced recovery, noting that hyperbaric chambers can boost recovery metrics tracked by devices like the Oura ring. A study from Jerusalem demonstrated that hyperbaric treatments could lengthen telomeres, effectively reversing biological age by about 20 years. Allen also noted the cognitive and physical benefits he experienced after incorporating Thorne supplements, particularly creatine, which he was previously hesitant to use due to old myths.
Fighter’s Time Off and Family Life
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(00:46:49)
  • Key Takeaway: Brendan Allen takes a few weeks to a month off post-fight to recover and manage his responsibilities as a full-time father to five children.
  • Summary: Allen typically takes a short break after fights, depending on injuries, before returning to training. He is currently a full-time dad and husband, expecting his fifth child soon. His future home construction includes two full gyms to minimize time away from family.
The Necessity of Mental Reset
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(00:48:07)
  • Key Takeaway: Taking time off is crucial for resetting the brain, a practice exemplified by bodybuilder Ronnie Coleman who would take months off after winning Mr. Olympia.
  • Summary: Resting the mind is vital, even for highly driven athletes like Coleman, to avoid burnout and maintain long-term performance. The fear of losing momentum during rest is often unfounded, as wise athletes understand the need to recover. This wisdom allows them to return refreshed rather than becoming lazy.
Training Camp Evolution and Location
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(00:49:30)
  • Key Takeaway: Brendan Allen has consistently traveled for training camps throughout his career, moving from Rufus Sport to Florida, and most recently to Chicago to train with Bilal Muhammad’s team.
  • Summary: Allen has trained at various locations since turning pro, including Rufus Sport and in Florida. He moved to Chicago after consulting with trusted people following a loss, seeking a change in environment and work ethic exemplified by Bilal Muhammad’s team. His move was prompted by identifying complacency as a mental issue.
Critique of Unorthodox Coaching
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(00:51:48)
  • Key Takeaway: Allen experienced training under a non-competing Russian coach teaching unorthodox techniques that he believed would not work in real MMA scenarios.
  • Summary: The coach in question had no documented competitive background in fighting or wrestling. Allen and his friend AJ tested one of the coach’s wall takedowns and easily countered it, demonstrating its ineffectiveness. This situation exemplified how parasitic or unqualified individuals can sometimes gain coaching roles.
Avoiding Conflict and Maturity
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(00:54:48)
  • Key Takeaway: As he has matured, Allen prioritizes avoiding conflict, recognizing that engaging in unnecessary altercations can ruin a successful life and career.
  • Summary: The younger self would seek conflict, but the current, wiser Allen prefers to move away from negative energy. He notes that conflicts can lead to severe consequences like stabbings or head injuries, which are not worth the risk for an elite professional fighter. He contrasts this with younger fighters who constantly feel the need to prove themselves.
Stories of Bar Fights and Violence
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(00:56:02)
  • Key Takeaway: Multiple anecdotes illustrate the devastating, life-altering consequences of random bar fights, including manslaughter and severe facial stabbing injuries.
  • Summary: Comedian Kevin James shared a story of a friend going to jail for manslaughter after accidentally killing a drunk patron in a bar fight. Allen recounted a friend being stabbed in the face and having his jaw wired shut over a misunderstanding about a woman. These stories underscore the extreme danger of engaging in violence when intoxicated or seeking to prove oneself.
Prevalence of Fighting Skills Today
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(01:02:00)
  • Key Takeaway: The current era has a higher percentage of people with fighting knowledge than perhaps any other time in history, making random altercations significantly more dangerous.
  • Summary: It is statistically more likely that one in ten random people can fight today compared to previous eras, excluding ancient times like the Spartans. Many people lack formal challenges, leading them to constantly try and prove themselves in public. Allen prefers non-violent resolutions, such as putting someone to sleep with a chokehold rather than striking.
Family Influence on Fighting Mentality
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(01:02:38)
  • Key Takeaway: Allen’s father, raised by a rugged WWII veteran who boxed, instilled a strong sense of defending the weak and responding decisively if provoked.
  • Summary: Allen’s grandfather, a tough WWII veteran, trained his father in boxing and instilled a rugged mentality. His father taught him to stand up for those who cannot defend themselves and to strike first if someone initiates aggression within arm’s reach. Allen feels this background contributes to his unique mindset when competing in MMA.
Importance of Elite Coaching
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(01:06:19)
  • Key Takeaway: Having an elite, highly involved coach who understands the fighter’s needs is crucial, as Allen succeeded in a fight while essentially self-coaching, which is highly unusual.
  • Summary: A good coach acts as a conductor, integrating striking, wrestling, and jiu-jitsu knowledge into a cohesive game plan. Allen’s performance in a fight where he lacked a main coach highlights the importance of having someone like a ‘Ferraza Hobby type’ to provide necessary technical adjustments between rounds. The difference between a good coach and a self-coached fighter is significant.
Finger Injuries in Grappling
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(01:09:03)
  • Key Takeaway: Grappling sports like Jiu-Jitsu carry the risk of ‘sheathing injuries,’ where rings or jewelry catch on the gi, ripping the skin off the finger.
  • Summary: Sheathing injuries involve the skin being pulled off the bone like a sheath, often occurring when a wedding ring catches during grappling. Due to these severe risks, Allen removes his wedding ring entirely when training, opting for a tattooed ring instead. Some elite coaches refuse to let students train with any rings, even silicone ones, due to the high injury rate.
Devastating Leg and Shin Injuries
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(01:11:01)
  • Key Takeaway: Broken shins from checking kicks are among the most horrifying injuries, exemplified by Conor McGregor’s fight against Dustin Poirier where a pre-existing fracture led to a snap.
  • Summary: The snap of a shin bone during a kick check is a particularly gruesome injury, often seen more frequently in MMA than kickboxing. McGregor fought Dustin Poirier in their third bout with a known hairline fracture, which ultimately broke completely. Tyrone Spong also suffered a clean break in a kickboxing match but handled the injury with surprising composure.
UFC Judging and Replay Monitors
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(01:16:08)
  • Key Takeaway: Joe Rogan claims the implementation of replay monitors for judges in the UFC was his idea, stemming from witnessing egregious judging errors.
  • Summary: Rogan pushed for monitors because judges were missing pivotal moments, like elbows or submissions, due to obstructions or poor sightlines. He notes that judges without any fighting background have been seen asking what basic submission moves like an Americana are. The practice of docking half a fighter’s purse for a bad decision is deemed unfair and should be stopped.
Analysis of the Fluffy Fight Loss
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(01:18:28)
  • Key Takeaway: Allen remains convinced he did not lose his decision fight against ‘Fluffy’ (Sean Strickland), attributing the loss to subjective interpretation of unified rules regarding damage versus effective grappling.
  • Summary: Allen reviewed the fight multiple times and believes his effective striking and damage should have outweighed Strickland’s control time. He notes that Strickland’s coach, who previously worked for the commission, likely strategized around the rules to maximize control. Allen felt he had fight-ending intentions, unlike Strickland’s purely defensive grappling.
Khamzat Chimaev’s Dominance and Conditioning
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(01:26:29)
  • Key Takeaway: Khamzat Chimaev possesses an overwhelming grappling gap, demonstrated by repeatedly putting champion Dricus du Plessis into a crucifix position without effective defense from the champion.
  • Summary: Chimaev is considered a ‘real A’ level fighter whose grappling is so superior that it requires Olympic-caliber wrestling to counter. Du Plessis failed to use basic defensive BJJ techniques like hip escapes while being controlled. Chimaev’s intense training regimen under conditioning coach Sam Calavita, even while sick with COVID, contributed to his elite gas tank.
Khamzat Chimaev’s Overtraining
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(01:32:46)
  • Key Takeaway: Khamzat Chimaev’s refusal to stop training, even while severely ill with COVID-19, led to the breakdown of his immune system requiring hospitalization.
  • Summary: Khamzat Chimaev is described as a maniac who overtrains relentlessly, refusing to stop sessions even when sick. He trained for two-hour sessions while actively sick with COVID-19, which severely damaged his immune system to the point of hospitalization. Training intensely with a serious lung infection, regardless of the illness, is noted as a potentially fatal error.
Endurance Coach Knowledge Transfer
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(01:33:50)
  • Key Takeaway: Knowledge from endurance cycling, the most endurance-dependent sport, is being successfully transferred to MMA by coaches like Sam, improving fighters’ gas tanks.
  • Summary: The conversation shifts to a coach named Sam, who brings expertise from endurance cycling, considered the most endurance-dependent sport on Earth. This knowledge covers recovery metrics, resting heart rate, supplements, and diet, resulting in fighters developing incredible gas tanks. This improved conditioning was noted as a factor in a recent fight where there was no late-round fade.
Usman vs. Chimaev Fight Analysis
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(01:35:02)
  • Key Takeaway: Kamaru Usman’s superior wrestling ability allowed him to manage the fight duration and recover from takedowns, leading to him tuning up Chimaev in the later rounds.
  • Summary: The Usman fight showed a fade in Chimaev’s output by the third round, contrasting with Chimaev’s previous fight where he maintained output. Usman, despite being a weight class below, demonstrated superior wrestling that allowed him to survive takedowns and maintain composure over a long fight. Usman began landing good shots in the third round, indicating he was figuring out the fight.
Chimaev’s Demeanor and Ian Garry Conflict
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(01:36:21)
  • Key Takeaway: The public perception of Chimaev’s confrontation with Ian Garry was skewed because the widely seen clip omitted Garry slapping Chimaev on the back first.
  • Summary: Chimaev’s demeanor is compared to the speaker’s, and the confrontation with Ian Garry is re-examined using an alternate angle. Garry initiated physical contact by slapping Chimaev hard on the back, prompting Chimaev’s aggressive response and warning. The speaker notes that Garry often tries to provoke a reaction from people to then criticize them.
Loyalty of Young Phenoms
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(01:38:41)
  • Key Takeaway: Young, highly talented fighters like Ansar and his peers exhibit intense loyalty to their circle, often leaving difficult home situations to pursue their careers in America.
  • Summary: The speaker highlights the fierce loyalty of a group of young fighters, who value brotherhood regardless of ethnicity or religion. These young phenoms, like Ansar and Umran John, often come from rough parts of the world, having left home around 17 or 18 years old by telling their parents they were going to the store. They work demanding jobs, often for moving companies overnight, to fund their training.
The Danger of Holding Guillotines
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(01:42:39)
  • Key Takeaway: Holding onto a guillotine choke while an opponent achieves side control is a critical error equivalent to giving up one’s back, exposing the neck to submission.
  • Summary: It is noted as crazy how often fighters maintain a guillotine attempt when an opponent secures side control. This position is described as a death sentence because the fighter has essentially given up their back and exposed their neck. Cinching the hands together and turning to the side can finish the submission.
Mental Reps and Time Off
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(01:48:12)
  • Key Takeaway: Taking time off after a fight allows the mind to process and correct technical flaws through mental repetition, leading to automatic physical correction upon returning to training.
  • Summary: Time away from fighting is crucial for mental rejuvenation and correcting technical errors through mental reps, such as visualizing the correct jab placement. The speaker emphasizes taking time away, especially the month after a fight, to avoid burnout and focus on family. The end of a career is closer than the beginning, necessitating making the most of the current time.
Setbacks as Growth Points
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(01:55:17)
  • Key Takeaway: Setbacks and failures are essential growth points that provide the necessary pain and motivation to assess flaws and return stronger, unlike fighters who let failure shatter their confidence.
  • Summary: Setbacks are framed as necessary for growth, forcing fighters to assess their diet, recovery, mindset, and approach when they feel ‘ugliness.’ Fighters who can swallow failure, like Bo Nickal after losing to De La Riva, use it as a furnace to come back stronger. Conversely, some fighters cannot handle failure, leading to shattered confidence or quitting the sport entirely.
Mental Strategy and Sports Psychology
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(01:57:26)
  • Key Takeaway: Openly discussing vulnerabilities with trusted individuals and utilizing structured psychological tools, like those from a sports psychiatrist, helps squash negative thoughts before they cause mental shutdowns.
  • Summary: The speaker benefited from a sports psychiatrist, learning to recognize and dissect negative emotions like pre-fight anxiety before they escalate. Being vulnerable and open with trusted coaches and family members helps externalize these thoughts, which is more effective than suppressing them internally. A key tool involved reading material before fights that emphasized concepts like ‘HOPE’ (Hold On Possibilities Exist) and avoiding the ‘I have to’ mindset.
Critique of 80s Movie Fights
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(02:21:17)
  • Key Takeaway: Early MMA/grappling techniques seen in media, like an armbar attempt, were often sloppy and poorly executed.
  • Summary: The speakers reviewed a clip, likely from an 80s movie, noting the wild nature of the action. They specifically pointed out a poorly executed armbar attempt as ‘sloppy’ and ’terrible.’ The segment transitioned into discussing the historical shock value of early grappling submissions like the triangle choke.
Gracie Lineage and Brazil Visit
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(02:22:03)
  • Key Takeaway: Brendan Allen visited the Gracie family in Brazil, meeting key figures and learning firsthand about the lineage’s history and internal family divides.
  • Summary: The discussion referenced the historical impact of Hélio Gracie tapping Dan Severn, which shocked early audiences. Allen recounted visiting a gym near the favela in Brazil, meeting members of the Gracie lineage, including what he believed was Hélio’s mother and father, and hearing stories about the origins of family disputes.
Gracie Family Dynamics and History
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(02:24:18)
  • Key Takeaway: The Gracie family divide reportedly stems from childhood incidents where one family member would report others’ street fights to authority figures.
  • Summary: The conversation focused on the origins of the beef between different sides of the Gracie family, which was explained to Allen during his visit. Specific names like Hori’on Gracie, who trained Mel Gibson and challenged Mike Tyson, were mentioned in relation to the family’s history. The divide was traced back to conflicts starting when family members were children, involving tattling about street fights.
Hickson Gracie’s Early Fights
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(02:26:26)
  • Key Takeaway: Hickson Gracie participated in no-rules beach fights in Rio, often without incorporating striking, which highlights the pure grappling focus of that era.
  • Summary: The speakers recalled stories of Hickson fighting on the beach against Luta Livre practitioners, sometimes involving striking exchanges that were largely one-sided toward grappling. Allen noted that Hickson’s pure grappling style, which relied on getting opponents to the ground, is rarely seen in modern MMA.
Royce Gracie’s UFC Role
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(02:28:18)
  • Key Takeaway: Royce Gracie was chosen to represent the family in early UFC events over the physically superior Hickson to best advertise the effectiveness of Jiu-Jitsu technique over raw athleticism.
  • Summary: It was explained that Royce, who looked less muscular than Hickson, was selected to demonstrate that technique could overcome size, serving as the ‘best advertisement ever’ for Jiu-Jitsu. Royce famously tapped out larger opponents like Dan Severn and Ken Shamrock using technique.
Evolution of MMA Competition
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(02:32:40)
  • Key Takeaway: The sport of MMA has undergone a gigantic, almost unrecognizable transformation in skill level between the early 1990s and today.
  • Summary: The discussion referenced early fights, such as Rick Rufus getting his legs chopped by a Thai fighter, which forced fighters to incorporate new skills like leg kicks. Allen stated that an 18-year-old prospect today would easily be a world champion in the 1994 era, emphasizing the massive skill gap.
Joe Rogan’s Longevity in UFC
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(02:36:28)
  • Key Takeaway: Joe Rogan has been involved with the UFC since UFC 12 in 1997, witnessing the entire growth of the sport firsthand.
  • Summary: Allen expressed admiration for Rogan’s long tenure, noting that he has seen the sport grow from its earliest days to its current status. Rogan confirmed he started doing backstage interviews at UFC 12 in 1997, which was a ‘crazy fluke’ stemming from a connection through his comedy manager.
Vitor Belfort’s Early Ferocity
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(02:38:25)
  • Key Takeaway: Vitor Belfort’s 1997 debut performance, where he blitzed John Hess with ground and pound, was the most ferocious display of striking Allen had ever witnessed at the time.
  • Summary: Allen recounted training at Carlson Gracie’s gym before Vitor’s UFC debut, witnessing his devastating performance against John Hess, who used a self-created style called SAFTA. Vitor won a heavyweight tournament in 1997, showcasing incredible speed and power against much larger men.
Demetrious Johnson’s Skill and Respect
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(02:45:05)
  • Key Takeaway: Demetrious Johnson (Mighty Mouse) is considered an extraordinary martial artist who prioritized the purity of the sport over fame or belts.
  • Summary: Allen described Johnson as the definition of a martial artist who dislikes disrespectful trash talk, contrasting him with fighters focused only on views. Allen shared a personal anecdote where Johnson moved so fast he hit him with two light body knees that were almost imperceptible, highlighting his incredible speed even late in his career.
Dangers of Unregulated Testing
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(02:47:05)
  • Key Takeaway: Inconsistent or budget-limited drug testing, such as only testing a few random fighters on a card, creates an unfair competitive environment.
  • Summary: Allen recounted an LFA experience where he was randomly tested while his opponent, who weighed significantly more, was not, highlighting the absurdity of selective testing. The conversation noted that during the TRT era, one main event was canceled because a fighter’s testosterone levels were dangerously high.
Fighter Mentality and Motivation
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(02:51:48)
  • Key Takeaway: Allen is motivated by fighting opponents who genuinely intend to hurt him, viewing that danger as the purest aspect of competition.
  • Summary: The speakers discussed the tragic incident where a fighter, Clovis Hancock, died after his heart stopped during a fight, reminding them that MMA is not a game. Allen stated he prefers opponents who bring a ‘demonic side’ and try to ‘kill’ him, as that intensity brings out the best version of his own fighting spirit.
Brendan Allen’s Next Fight Hopes
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(02:52:43)
  • Key Takeaway: Brendan Allen is actively pushing for a fight against former champion Derek Brunson, viewing it as the necessary next step in his career.
  • Summary: Allen hopes to fight Derek Brunson by March or April, noting that with other middleweight matchups announced, it is the logical next fight for both of them. Allen believes Brunson needs to ’turn back the young lions’ and views him as the luckiest fighter he has ever seen due to how he won some past bouts, though he respects Brunson’s dog-like ability to find a way to win.