Behind the Bastards

Robert and Cody Read Ben Shapiro's New Book

October 9, 2025

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  • The central analogy of Ben Shapiro's new book, pitting 'Lions' (conservatives/builders) against 'Scavengers' (critics/destroyers), is immediately undermined by the factual inaccuracy that lions are significant scavengers themselves. 
  • The hosts argue that Shapiro's framework for the current political climate—labeling pro-Palestine protesters in London as 'scavengers' attacking 'the pride' (Western civilization/Israel)—is a misapplication of Tolkien's work and ignores the actual motivations behind the protests. 
  • Ben Shapiro's political and literary aspirations are rooted in envy stemming from his failure to succeed as a Hollywood screenwriter, leading him to create a simplistic, self-serving dichotomy where he is the misunderstood 'Lion' and his critics are the envious 'Scavengers'. 
  • The hosts argue that Ben Shapiro's claims of conservative persecution in Hollywood are contradicted by the existence of successful conservative actors and writers, and that his failure there is due to poor writing skills, exemplified by his self-describing passage about 'the scavenger.' 
  • The discussion highlights the irony of Shapiro criticizing the idea that 'political power grows from the barrel of a gun' while simultaneously supporting actions like mass arrests (citing the London Palestine Action protest) that rely on state enforcement power. 
  • Shapiro's assertion that the British Empire's fall was due to embracing the welfare state is dismissed as ignoring the massive impact of World War I, a conflict whose horrors later caused even the staunch imperialist Rudyard Kipling to express guilt and question the lies told to young men, a self-reflection Shapiro is deemed incapable of. 

Segments

Book Introduction and Lion Analogy
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(00:04:09)
  • Key Takeaway: Ben Shapiro’s new nonfiction book, Lions and Scavengers: The True Story of America and her critics, frames society as a conflict between builders and destroyers.
  • Summary: The book’s thesis is established through an inscription dedicating it to ’lions’ who build civilization against ‘scavengers’ who destroy it. Robert and Cody immediately note the book’s dated feel, seeming coded for 2018/2019 political realities. The hosts express frustration that Shapiro is attempting a philosophical comparison while lacking basic knowledge of the subject matter.
Factual Inaccuracy of Lion Analogy
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(00:07:05)
  • Key Takeaway: Shapiro’s entire foundational analogy fails because lions frequently scavenge, often stealing kills from smaller predators, contradicting his premise that lions are purely hunters/builders.
  • Summary: Lions are scavengers as much as, or sometimes more than, hunters, with up to 50% of their diet coming from scavenging. The hosts suggest Shapiro’s knowledge is derived from The Lion King rather than biology. Furthermore, lions often steal kills from animals like hyenas, suggesting they are analogous to robbers rather than pure creators.
London Protests as Scavenger Gathering
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(00:10:19)
  • Key Takeaway: Shapiro defines the pro-Palestine protesters in London as ‘scavengers’ motivated by a ‘united coalitional hatred of the West,’ ignoring their focus on civilian deaths in Gaza.
  • Summary: Shapiro frames the London protests against Israeli actions in Gaza as a revolt by ’terrorist groups and communists and of transgender activists’ against civilization. The hosts counter that these protests are attempts to participate in society by speaking to power, not destroy it. Shapiro conflates criticism of specific actions with an unreasoning hatred of Western civilization itself.
Shapiro’s History of Extreme Views
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(00:14:06)
  • Key Takeaway: Shapiro has a history of advocating for extreme positions, including arguing in 2003 for the forced ’transfer’ (ethnic cleansing) of Palestinians and Israeli Arabs.
  • Summary: The hosts contrast Shapiro’s current horror at perceived scavenger behavior with his past writings, including an article where he stated he was unconcerned about civilian casualties in Afghanistan and the West Bank. Shapiro previously argued for allowing Israel to ’transfer’ Palestinians and Israeli Arabs, which the hosts identify as ethnic cleansing.
Tolkien’s Politics vs. Shapiro’s Use
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(00:27:45)
  • Key Takeaway: J.R.R. Tolkien, who Shapiro attempts to invoke, held deeply anti-capitalist, anti-industrial, and anti-American cosmopolitan views that fundamentally oppose Shapiro’s politics.
  • Summary: Tolkien described himself as an anarchist who hated industrialism and expressed disgust at the idea of American culture flattening the world, sentiments opposite to Shapiro’s. Tolkien was also critical of Winston Churchill, whom he photographed looking like a ‘scumbag’ next to Stalin. Both Tolkien and Lewis would likely have been horrified by modern AI and data center consumption.
C.S. Lewis on Power and Virtue
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(00:38:52)
  • Key Takeaway: C.S. Lewis’s writings, which Shapiro quotes, actually excoriate figures like Shapiro who lack courage and yield their principles for political expediency or personal gain.
  • Summary: Lewis stated that courage is the form of every virtue at the testing point, implying that virtue yielding to danger is conditional, a critique applicable to conservatives who supported Trump after initially opposing him. Lewis also warned that the ‘inquisitor who mistakes his own cruelty… for the voice of heaven’ torments indefinitely, contrasting with Shapiro’s self-righteous political punditry. Lewis declined an honorary title because he feared becoming a political figure, viewing such roles as propaganda.
The Spirit of Envy and Shapiro’s Career
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(00:51:15)
  • Key Takeaway: Shapiro’s core motivation, identified as the ‘spirit of envy,’ stems from his failure to achieve his initial goal of becoming a Hollywood screenwriter, fueling his resentment toward the left-leaning industry.
  • Summary: Shapiro’s entire political project, including the creation of The Daily Wire, is fueled by resentment because Hollywood did not recognize his perceived brilliance as a writer. The hosts note that Shapiro ignores successful conservative writers and actors in Hollywood, insisting his failure must be due to bigotry. Shapiro himself admitted that the Vance of Hillbilly Elegy era was more of a ’lion’ than his current iteration, suggesting his definition of success is fluid.
Conservative Hollywood Successes
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(00:54:24)
  • Key Takeaway: Successful conservative actors like Kelsey Grammer and John Voight exist, contradicting the narrative of total liberal dominance in Hollywood.
  • Summary: There are numerous successful conservative figures in Hollywood, including actors and writers. Even mainstream media like action movies featuring torture scenes during the War on Terror can be ideologically conservative propaganda, regardless of the creators’ self-identification. The hosts suggest that resentment drives current efforts to remove perceived ideological opponents.
Shapiro’s Scavenger Projection
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(00:55:56)
  • Key Takeaway: Ben Shapiro describes himself as a ‘scavenger’ who believes success is only about power and conspiracy, immediately after criticizing others for similar views.
  • Summary: The text immediately following Shapiro’s critique of ’the spirit of the scavenger’ appears to be a direct description of Shapiro himself. This self-description claims the scavenger believes success stems only from power and that a great conspiracy is working against them. The hosts assert this accurately reflects Shapiro’s entire career narrative.
Lion/Scavenger Metaphor Critique
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(00:56:47)
  • Key Takeaway: Shapiro incorrectly contrasts lions forming a ‘pride’ with scavengers forming a ‘pack,’ which are near-synonyms, while describing the pack as looters and barbarians.
  • Summary: The distinction between a lion’s ‘pride’ and a scavenger’s ‘pack’ is weak, as the terms are nearly synonymous. Shapiro links the ‘fall of London’ to the growing power of this ‘pack.’ This claim is immediately juxtaposed with news of 474 arrests at a Palestine Action protest in London, suggesting the real power structure is the state apparatus, not the marginalized ‘pack.’
Power, Mao, and Imperialism
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(00:59:43)
  • Key Takeaway: Shapiro critiques Mao’s view on political power from a gun barrel while simultaneously supporting state actions like mass arrests, demonstrating hypocrisy regarding the source of power.
  • Summary: Shapiro criticizes leftists for embracing Mao’s concept of power derived from force, yet his own political project supports actions like mass arrests, which are direct applications of coercive state power. The hosts argue that Shapiro’s narrative requires conservatives to perpetually claim victimhood rather than acknowledge their current levers of power.
Kipling’s Warning vs. Shapiro’s Use
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(01:00:18)
  • Key Takeaway: Shapiro cites Kipling’s poem as a warning against failing to pass on conservative ways, ignoring Kipling’s later profound shift in perspective following his son’s death in WWI.
  • Summary: Kipling’s poem, written at the height of the British Empire, is used by Shapiro to warn against the welfare state leading to decline. However, Kipling’s son, John, died in the Battle of Loos, leading Kipling to later express immense guilt, famously writing, ‘If any questioned why we died, tell them, because our fathers lied.’ This later perspective suggests a critique of the very imperialist fervor Kipling once championed.
Kipling’s Anti-Imperialist Turn
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(01:06:18)
  • Key Takeaway: Following WWI, Rudyard Kipling became increasingly critical of imperialism, evidenced by his poem ‘A Pict Song,’ which functions as an anti-imperialist critique.
  • Summary: Kipling’s experience in WWI caused him to become critical of his previous imperialist stances, even though he struggled to fully repudiate them due to ego and guilt. ‘A Pict Song’ describes the subjugated ’little folk’ who work out of view to eventually guide stronger nations to destroy the oppressor, suggesting that empires ultimately collapse from within or through the actions of the oppressed.
Podcast Outro and Plugs
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(01:08:58)
  • Key Takeaway: Cody Johnston plugs his weekly news show ‘Some More News’ and his twice-weekly show ‘Even More News,’ alongside his band, The Hot Shapes.
  • Summary: The hosts conclude the segment, noting they will likely return to Ben Shapiro’s book later. Cody Johnston promotes his current projects, including his news shows and his band. The episode concludes with standard podcast credits for CoolZone Media and iHeartRadio.