Stuff You Should Know

Selects: How Schoolhouse Rock Rocked: Featuring Bob Nastanovich of Pavement

October 11, 2025

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  • Schoolhouse Rock originated from an advertising agency executive, David McCall, who sought to apply commercial jingle techniques to teach his son multiplication tables, leading to the hiring of jazz pianist and composer Bob Doro. 
  • The foundational success of Schoolhouse Rock stemmed from the creative decision to pair popular-sounding music with visuals, specifically the instruction not to 'write down to the kids,' as emphasized by Bob Doro. 
  • The first Schoolhouse Rock song, 'Three Is a Magic Number,' was created by Bob Doro based on math concepts, while the later, highly recognizable hit 'I'm Just a Bill' was composed by Dave Frischberg. 

Segments

Podcast Introduction and Context
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(00:00:00)
  • Key Takeaway: The Stuff You Should Know episode ‘Selects: How Schoolhouse Rock Rocked: Featuring Bob Nastanovich of Pavement’ is a re-release of a classic episode.
  • Summary: The episode is a selection from the archives of the podcast Stuff You Should Know, focusing on Schoolhouse Rock. It features an interview with Bob Nastanovich of Pavement, who contributed to a 90s tribute record. The hosts note that Schoolhouse Rock was a fundamental source of learning and entertainment for Generation X.
Origin of Schoolhouse Rock
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(00:06:09)
  • Key Takeaway: Schoolhouse Rock was conceived by advertising executive David McCall after realizing his son could memorize song lyrics but not multiplication tables.
  • Summary: McCall, a partner at McCaffrey and McCall, proposed using advertising techniques to sell education to children rather than products. After an initial writer’s attempt failed, jazz pianist Bob Doro was commissioned and provided the key insight: do not write down to the children.
First Song and Early Success
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(00:10:25)
  • Key Takeaway: The very first Schoolhouse Rock song was ‘Three Is a Magic Number,’ written by Bob Doro, which explored mathematical concepts alongside philosophical ideas like faith, hope, and charity.
  • Summary: The initial concept was an album called Multiplication Rock, but the addition of visuals by art director Tom Yohe made it suitable for television. The first four songs debuted in January 1973, including ‘Three Is a Magic Number’ and ‘My Hero Zero,’ the latter of which earned Bob Doro a Grammy nomination.
Grammar and History Rock Seasons
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(00:23:15)
  • Key Takeaway: Grammar Rock debuted in 1973-1974, featuring the iconic ‘Conjunction Junction’ sung by trumpeter Jack Sheldon, while History Rock tied into the 1976 Bicentennial.
  • Summary: Grammar Rock featured sophisticated musicality, such as the complex rhyme schemes in ‘Conjunction Junction,’ and introduced Lynn Ahrens as a key songwriter after she was discovered playing guitar during a lunch break. History Rock included ‘No More Kings,’ which Pavement later covered for the tribute album.
Computer Rock Season Criticism
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(00:38:50)
  • Key Takeaway: The fifth season, Computer Rock (1985), reversed the creative process by assigning topics to songwriters, resulting in content that quickly became dated due to the rapid evolution of technology.
  • Summary: Executive Squire Rushnell commissioned the computer-themed season, believing children were afraid of the technology, leading to songs about data processing that lacked the timeless quality of earlier installments. This season is considered an undignified end to the original run before the show was pulled in 1985.
Resurgence and Legacy
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(00:42:16)
  • Key Takeaway: A student petition in the late 1980s led to the show’s revival in 1993 with the Money Rock season, demonstrating the strong Generation X nostalgia for the series.
  • Summary: The 1993 return featured original creators producing new content like ‘Tyrannosaurus Debt,’ and the 90s saw further resurgence with the ‘Schoolhouse Rock Rocks’ tribute CD. The show’s enduring cultural impact is also evidenced by the 2013 Kennedy Center sing-along.
Historical Criticism and Favorite Songs
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(00:49:44)
  • Key Takeaway: Criticism of Schoolhouse Rock centers on the History Rock segment, specifically ‘Elbow Room,’ for promoting a whitewashed, manifest destiny narrative without acknowledging Native Americans.
  • Summary: The hosts acknowledge that the show reflected the historical narratives of its time, citing ‘Elbow Room’ as an example of misleading children about westward expansion. Despite this, the host’s personal favorite remains the Grammar Rock song ‘Rufus Xavier Sarsparilla,’ which details the use of pronouns.
Bob Nostanovich Interview Segment
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(00:55:04)
  • Key Takeaway: Pavement recorded their cover of ‘No More Kings’ in Memphis during a period when the band members were temporarily fired from Silver Jews, using the studio time they had already booked.
  • Summary: The recording session for ‘No More Kings’ was a rare instance where the three core Pavement members recorded together, and it was completed quickly in one instrumental take. Drummer Steve West provided the deep-voiced background rambling, which the band felt utilized his speaking voice advantageously.
Pavement’s “No More Kings” Recording
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(00:56:52)
  • Key Takeaway: Steve West provided the deep voice rambling for Pavement’s cover of “No More Kings,” utilizing his powerful speaking voice.
  • Summary: Pavement chose the Boston Tea Party themed song “No More Kings” for the compilation. Steve West’s vocal stylings were used for the first time in band history for the deep voice rambling in the background. The instrumental track was recorded in one take, and the entire process, including vocal dubbing, took approximately eight minutes.
Recording Session Logistics and Jackie
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(00:58:28)
  • Key Takeaway: The Pavement recording session for the Schoolhouse Rock track only included three members because they initially thought the project was for the Silver Jews.
  • Summary: The recording session only involved three Pavement members because they mistakenly believed the project was for the Silver Jews, leaving Canberra and Eibold at home. The session also produced the song “Give It a Day” for the Pacific Trim EP. The project was driven by Jackie, who was a friend and later became Kurt Cobain’s nanny and Pavement’s tour manager.
Pavement’s Unique Cover Style
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(01:00:36)
  • Key Takeaway: Pavement’s cover of the Schoolhouse Rock song was praised for being the perfect mix of straightforwardness and being “totally pavementized.”
  • Summary: Bob Nastanovich believes Pavement cannot execute straightforward covers well, contrasting them with bands like R.E.M. who can maintain their sound while covering others. He suggests that without their unique spin, they risk humiliating themselves on a straight cover. This necessity to devise their own take is what made their version successful.
Initial Reception and Significance
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(01:01:59)
  • Key Takeaway: The band thought the project was a great idea around 1996 or 1997, despite the potential for it to sound childish or corny.
  • Summary: The band members had largely forgotten about Schoolhouse Rock by the time of the recording, only clearly recalling “Conjunction Junction.” Nastanovich feels the track has become one of Pavement’s more significant contributions outside the band’s core discography. His wife first heard Pavement when her older sister bought the Schoolhouse Rock compilation when the wife was about ten.
Nastanovich’s Role and Jamming Aversion
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(01:03:32)
  • Key Takeaway: Nastanovich often learned about Pavement’s major activities, like new albums or tours, last because he was focused on horse racing and was considered the band’s “secret weapon.”
  • Summary: Nastanovich admits he was often the last to know about band developments, living in Louisville and frequenting the racetrack. He finds the concept of jamming awkward and is unaware of the serious gear-head culture surrounding music performance. He noted that the Schoolhouse Rock recording went smoothly because it was a quick, non-overthought process.
Listener Email Reflection
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(01:08:35)
  • Key Takeaway: A listener named Sam found that rediscovering the podcast unexpectedly helped her process grief related to her brother’s suicide by recalling happy family memories associated with listening to the show while skiing.
  • Summary: Sam rediscovered Stuff You Should Know, which her father used to play during family ski trips in 2009. This rediscovery brought back happy memories, contrasting with the painful grief she has been processing since her brother’s tragic death four and a half years prior. The shared experience of skiing with her parents recently allowed her to feel close to her brother’s memory.