Waveform: The MKBHD Podcast

Can the iPhone 17 Pro Beat a Leica?

October 3, 2025

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  • Andrew debuted the Microsoft XP Crocs, featuring Windows XP iconography as gibbets, during the show and tell segment. 
  • Marques shared his initial impressions of the Meta Ray-Ban Smart Glasses, noting the bright, viewable internal display and the thick, glossy frames. 
  • Amazon and Google both announced significant hardware and software updates, including new Echo devices and the transition of Nest subscriptions to Google Home Premium integrating Gemini AI. 
  • The RAW image output from the unreleased iPhone 17 Pro camera is capable of producing results that are highly competitive with, and sometimes indistinguishable from, a dedicated Leica camera, particularly in challenging, high-dynamic-range landscape scenes. 
  • The hosts noted that computational photography in smartphones often over-processes RAW files by unnecessarily lifting shadows, which can detract from a natural look compared to the sensor's raw output. 
  • James Cameron believes that 3D content is the inevitable future of media engagement because stereoscopic imagery triggers enhanced brain activity via parallax recognition, making it inherently more engaging than flat 2D content. 

Segments

Sponsor Reads and Intro
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(00:00:00)
  • Key Takeaway: The episode is sponsored by Anthropic (Claude) and OnePassword, setting the stage for discussions on hardware and tech.
  • Summary: Support for Waveform comes from Anthropic, promoting Claude as an AI collaborator, and OnePassword, highlighting Trellica for conquering SaaS sprawl. The hosts introduce the episode, noting upcoming segments on the iPhone 17 Pro camera test, Meta Display glasses, and Amazon/Google hardware news.
Andrew’s XP Crocs Show and Tell
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(00:02:23)
  • Key Takeaway: Andrew revealed the Microsoft XP Crocs, which feature the Windows XP Hillside Cloud background design and include gibbets of the cursor, MSN butterfly, Internet Explorer, and Clippy.
  • Summary: Andrew presented the Microsoft XP Crocs, which come in a bag featuring the Windows XP background. The Crocs themselves have the design on the top with green on the bottom. The accompanying gibbets include iconic Windows XP elements like the cursor and Clippy.
Meta Ray-Ban Display Glasses First Look
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(00:08:16)
  • Key Takeaway: The Meta Ray-Ban Display glasses feature a bright, viewable internal UI projected via a waveguide, though the frames are noticeably thick and glossy.
  • Summary: Marques demonstrated the Meta Ray-Ban Display glasses, which project a UI visible to the wearer, noting the display is very bright (up to 5,000 nits). The glasses are $800 and come with the Neural Band for setup, which took about 10 minutes. The frames are thick, leading to a double-take reaction in public, and the carrying case folds almost entirely flat.
Logitech MX Master 4 Mouse Review
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(00:17:47)
  • Key Takeaway: The Logitech MX Master 4 mouse features improved materials to prevent peeling, a USB-C dongle, and a highly customizable haptic action ring for shortcuts.
  • Summary: The MX Master 4 utilizes better materials than previous versions and includes a USB-C dongle, which should not be stored in the mouse’s charging port due to difficulty removing it. A key feature is the haptic feedback action ring located where the thumb rests, which can be programmed for actions like running Raycast shortcuts.
Amazon Hardware Event Recap
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(00:22:44)
  • Key Takeaway: Amazon announced updated Echo Shows (8 and 11), the Echo Dot Max, a new Echo Studio, and new Kindle Scribes, all timed for the holiday season.
  • Summary: Amazon unveiled new Echo Show devices with better displays and a 13MP camera, alongside the Echo Dot Max, which boasts 3x the bass response of the original Dot. They also introduced new Kindle Scribes with color support starting at $430, aiming to compete with Remarkable tablets. New Fire TV Omni QLEDs feature ambient lighting adjustment similar to True Tone.
Google Home/Nest Rebranding and Gemini Integration
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(00:31:24)
  • Key Takeaway: Google is officially retiring the Nest name, revamping the Home app, and integrating Gemini Live into its smart home ecosystem via new subscription tiers.
  • Summary: Google is replacing the Nest Aware subscription with Google Home Premium, which has Standard ($10/month) and Advanced ($20/month) tiers. The new Google Home Speaker, sized between the Nest Mini and Audio, features bold colors and 360-degree audio, launching in Spring 2026. Gemini integration allows for conversational commands and AI-powered searching through saved video history.
Camera Comparison Game Begins
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(00:39:40)
  • Key Takeaway: David initiated a game where hosts guess if landscape photos taken in the French Alps were captured on the iPhone 17 Pro (using Halide RAW) or the Leica M11.
  • Summary: The first round of the game pitted the iPhone against the Leica M11, with David noting he shot unprocessed RAW files on the iPhone to test its capabilities. The first image, a wide landscape shot of cabins and mountains, was correctly identified by the producers’ team as being from the iPhone.
Mountain Photo Comparison Game
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(00:50:42)
  • Key Takeaway: The dynamic range improvement in the Leica M11 over the M10 is significant, preventing highlight clipping that occurred in the older model.
  • Summary: The hosts analyzed a high-altitude mountain photo, noting the sharpness and detail preserved in the peaks emerging from the clouds. A comparison between Leica M10 and M11 dynamic range was made, noting the M11 handles highlights much better. The final identification of Image Two as the Leica was based on subtle vignetting in the top corners.
Alpine Lake Focal Length Test
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(00:52:29)
  • Key Takeaway: The iPhone 17 Pro’s RAW processing, even minimally edited, was initially mistaken for the Leica output, highlighting the advancement in smartphone sensor capabilities.
  • Summary: A set of photos taken from the same alpine lake location but with different focal lengths were compared. Initial guesses favored the Leica for the right image due to superior detail in distant mountains. The reveal was that the right image, which looked superior, was actually the iPhone’s singular RAW image with minimal processing.
RAW Processing Critique
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(00:55:37)
  • Key Takeaway: The iPhone’s computational photography is criticized for optimizing storage and shadow detail in a way that can make the resulting image look ’trash’ when the sensor is left to its own devices without heavy processing.
  • Summary: The fact that the iPhone RAW image looked less impressive than the Leica led to a critique of smartphone computational photography. This processing is often geared toward storage optimization and lifting shadows, which may not always result in a ‘real picture’ look. This tendency is compared to Google’s ProRAW implementation, which also lifts shadows excessively.
Cairn Photo Identification
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(00:56:56)
  • Key Takeaway: The iPhone 17 Pro was correctly identified as the source for a photo featuring a snow-covered cairn and mountains, despite the difficulty in distinguishing it from the Leica.
  • Summary: The next image featured a trail cairn next to snow-covered mountains, prompting a brief discussion on the pronunciation of ‘cairn.’ The hosts struggled to differentiate the images based on detail due to compression in Google Slides, relying instead on exposure cues. The image was confirmed to be from the iPhone, with one host noting a reflection of the Meta glasses in the sky.
Shadow Detail Comparison
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(00:59:32)
  • Key Takeaway: The iPhone was identified in a landscape shot featuring a mountainside lake because the shadows on the mountain were too high and the sky gradient matched previous iPhone examples.
  • Summary: This landscape featured a blue-green lake and snow-covered mountains, with the hosts noting a slight graininess attributed to Google Slides compression. The consensus leaned toward the iPhone due to the sky’s color gradient matching the previous iPhone shot. The image was confirmed as iPhone, despite the host noting they preferred the M11 shot of the same scene.
High Contrast Landscape Reveal
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(01:01:13)
  • Key Takeaway: The iPhone was identified in a high-contrast shot because the shadows appeared less deep and the dynamic range was perceived as lesser compared to the Leica.
  • Summary: The subsequent photo presented deep shadows on the left and bright highlights on the right, making the identification difficult. The hosts guessed iPhone, citing the perceived loss of meaningful detail in both the snow highlights and foreground shadows. This image was confirmed as the iPhone, which the photographer admitted they preferred over the M11 version taken at the same time.
Final Dark Landscape Shot
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(01:04:13)
  • Key Takeaway: The final, darker landscape shot, resembling a stock wallpaper, was identified as the iPhone due to the way its exposure seemed to bleed mountain color into the sky gradient.
  • Summary: The last image was significantly darker with murky clouds, looking like a postcard or Mac stock wallpaper, taken at 12,000 feet altitude. The hosts noted that the iPhone seemed to transfer some of the mountain’s exposure into the sky gradient, leading to the final guess of iPhone. The photographer confirmed this was the iPhone, despite the lighting being drastically different from previous shots.
Filmmaker Perspective and 3D Future
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(01:13:25)
  • Key Takeaway: James Cameron asserts that 3D content is the inevitable future because the human brain evolved two eyes specifically for the enhanced engagement provided by parallax.
  • Summary: The conversation with James Cameron and Andrew Bosworth explored the potential for first-person cameras in filmmaking, noting that modern social media culture is accustomed to constant observation. Cameron referenced his 1993 concept ‘Strange Days’ as prescient regarding selling recorded experiences. He argued that 3D content enhances engagement because the brain regions responsible for parallax recognition are more active when viewing stereoscopic images.
Trivia and Amazon Echo Flex
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(01:20:48)
  • Key Takeaway: The Amazon Echo Flex is a USB A-to-wall adapter with a built-in speaker and Alexa, a function not suggested by its name.
  • Summary: The trivia segment began with a question about the Amazon Echo Flex, which none of the hosts could correctly identify based on the name alone. The device is revealed to be a wall adapter with integrated Alexa functionality. The score update showed Andrew leading with 8 points, Marquez with 6, and David with 3.